Teckair Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Everybody knew those aircraft were over weight there is a lot more to this story than what was in that report. I can't prove anything but to pile blame on Mike O'Sullivan is most likely unfair. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 So did the weight cause the accident?If it ws exp GA regd would it not have occurred? No....the aircraft had a history of problems, and the last one finally got it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnm Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 other factors I know but in regards to registration .................... weight of engine (assuming this engine) ................ 163 kilos dry (info below) http://www.supermarineaircraft.com/options-v6-engine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keenaviator Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Everybody knew those aircraft were over weight there is a lot more to this story than what was in that report. I can't prove anything but to pile blame on Mike O'Sullivan is most likely unfair. I didn't know. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Everybody knew those aircraft were over weight there is a lot more to this story than what was in that report. I can't prove anything but to pile blame on Mike O'Sullivan is most likely unfair. Everyone knows a lot of things are wrong even today, but they just sit back and let their colleagues die; they don't mean to do it, but the death toll is way too high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teckair Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 I didn't know. When I said everyone I did not mean everyone on the planet but rather everyone who was around at the time who had an interest and understanding of these things. If you build an all metal warbird replica with a V6 car engine with retracts, variable speed prop etc it will weigh more than 544 kg mtow. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teckair Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Having read it I feel (as usual ) there are obvious errors in it. The pilot due to a chain of circumstances had little chance of controlling an aircraft , that was gradually developing faults due to a failing supply of electricity, that made it unflyable. The engine could not continue to run without electrical power. Perhaps it illustrates how easy it is for people to arrive at the convenient "pilot error" conclusion. Nev I understand what you are saying and agree with most of it, but the unflyable part, as far as I could tell it was a stall spin accident. For me the first priority is fly the plane, in that report I did not see anything that meant a wheels up emergency landing could not have been attempted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 An easy call if you weren't there and often asserted. I try to imagine just what situation the pilot found himself in and I don't believe it is just a simple "engine out" situation. The aircraft could well have been not reasonably able to fly. Do we know where the Cof G was?. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teckair Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 I am not criticizing the pilot just passing an opinion based on the information at hand and no not a simple engine out situation. No we have no way of knowing the C of G position but we do know the aircraft was flying. If the C of G is out usually the pilot can feel it, just more reason not to get too slow. I made that post in hope that it might help someone else avoid the same fate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Without propwash on the tailfeathers the control problem may have become evident. Up till then it may have been masked If the engine is not producing power but absorbing it and it is relatively large it would possibly have a large effect on the airflow over the tail area, and control capability. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teckair Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 The way I read it the gear malfunctioned and the pilot may have been trying to assist it with a steep bank at slow speed, which is not what you would do if you thought you had a control problem. I don't want to continue this, I have experienced a control problem in flight and thought this was an ideal occasion to reinforce the importance of flying the plane when things go wrong in the cockpit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Well, regardless of what actually happened on this occasion, the various theories, correct or incorrect, always provide food for thought to other people. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 You could well be correct, and had he decided to land with gear not down he may well be alive. I think from what I've learned the aircraft was not an airworthy design, by a long shot.. You have to assess what you have going for you and be prepared to damage the plane to make a safer decision for your existence. Owner pilots often get the priorities wrong, to try to save an asset. Human factors anyone? I don't want to judge a persons performance as none of us know unless we were there. Relevant points are worthy of discussion so we learn by discussing. possibilities. Many lay blame on a pilot as if trying to convince themselves THEY would never be so poor a pilot. Not suggesting YOU are doing this Teckair. I've had an elevator fail on two different types in my career and it focuses the mind. Nev 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 You could well be correct, and had he decided to land with gear not down he may well be alive. I think from what I've learned the aircraft was not an airworthy design, by a long shot..You have to assess what you have going for you and be prepared to damage the plane to make a safer decision for your existence. Owner pilots often get the priorities wrong, to try to save an asset. Human factors anyone? I don't want to judge a persons performance as none of us know unless we were there. Relevant points are worthy of discussion so we learn by discussing. possibilities. Many lay blame on a pilot as if trying to convince themselves THEY would never be so poor a pilot. Not suggesting YOU are doing this Techair. I've had an elevator fail on two different types in my career and it focuses the mind. Nev Not as much as having a wing come off !......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 With that I agree also. Would not make your day. ALL jokes aside the 2 things that worry me the most, are structural failure and in flight fire. Nev 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 With that I agree also. Would not make your day.ALL jokes aside the 2 things that worry me the most, are structural failure and in flight fire. Nev I am one of the few people around who experienced that and lived to tell the story...but I'd rather not...not a memorable day at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teckair Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 I am one of the few people around who experienced that and lived to tell the story...but I'd rather not...not a memorable day at all. You had a parachute? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teckair Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 You could well be correct, and had he decided to land with gear not down he may well be alive. I think from what I've learned the aircraft was not an airworthy design, by a long shot..You have to assess what you have going for you and be prepared to damage the plane to make a safer decision for your existence. Owner pilots often get the priorities wrong, to try to save an asset. Human factors anyone? I don't want to judge a persons performance as none of us know unless we were there. Relevant points are worthy of discussion so we learn by discussing. possibilities. Many lay blame on a pilot as if trying to convince themselves THEY would never be so poor a pilot. Not suggesting YOU are doing this Teckair. I've had an elevator fail on two different types in my career and it focuses the mind. Nev I think the main problem was the retracts. Yes trying to save the plane can be deadly. Not blaming the pilot he had a lot to deal with but maybe others can gain from the whole sad event. I had a Thruster which went pitch unstable, I thought our number was up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 You had a parachute? No...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Sometimes Richard, when someone has been through a horrific trauma and doesn't want to talk about it, you leave it at that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Maj's event is true, dramatic and recorded. There may be a link to it. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teckair Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 I know some one who had a wing fall off a Winton Grasshopper on late final, no sure how high maybe 50 ft, and he survived. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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