Stol

[Ballpoint 246niner]

I am just wondering if the main requirement of STOL flying is careful speed control.

Like all good flying close to the ground.....

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

I feel it has a lot to do with how well the pilot knows the aircraft. Knowledge of what it will, and will not do, and exactly what it is going to do, if you do that.

 

You can really only get this itimacy with the aircraft by putting up a few hours in it.

 

My old 582 cable Drifter for instance would always be happy to always fly at 50 kts indicated, regardless of how much it was loaded. 2-up, ful-fuel and gear, put 50 kts on the go-fast guage, and you could fly it everytime. It never failed me in eleven years. I tried this a few times on shortish strips, and it takes nerve to hold it on when you are rapidly running out of runway. But hit the magic 50 kts and your away everytime with safety.

 

My current 100hp 912 Lightwing with flaps is not a lot different, but it has more horsepower to pull out that heavy load. Although I would not really classify it as a true STOL, it does a pretty good job of getting off short when needed.......................................Maj...

 

 

[eightyknots]

This is a really short take off and landing from an African Savannah. It's an old-style Savannah still fitted with slats on the leading edge

 

The pilot's second landing is impressive, being able to land ON the intersection and then still managing a right turn on the same intersection

 

 

My estimate is that the landing distance was only about ten metres. Does anyone want to have a go at a better estimate?

 

 

[Spin]

That is seriously impressive, all the more so because there did not appear to be a howling wind on the nose and it was clearly a decent landing, not a controlled crash.

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

Actually there is a fair wind on the nose by the look of it..maybe 15 plus knots you can hear it in the camera audio and a womans blonde hair being blown in fron t of the camera...but still very impressive

 

 

[Ultralights]

have noticed most of the real short stuff happens on a windy day!

 

with my Savvy, as seen above, (no i wasnt flying it then) i am more concerned doing a STOL take off. my technique is hold brakes bring to full power, and as the rpm comes up to full, release brakes, and hold some back stick, not too much, just enough to get the nose wheel off, then once the ASI hits 30 kts, begine a steady pull on the stick until she gets airborne, usually at around 35 kts. but you have to be ready on the rudder and hold a bit of right aileron to counter the torque and prop wash at full power with a relatively low airflow over the controls.

 

as for landing, first step is practice Spot landings! practice until you can hit the mark you want every time..with a glide approach

 

i dont like the drag it in behind the drag curve approach, as it leaves little margin for error should the wind change, or engine have a miss.

 

i try to get my STOL landings setup on base, with a glide approach with full flap, using gravity to keep my airspeed at about 4o kts ( dont forget you can always go-around and try again, and again)

 

i keep the glide right into the flare, during the flare, speed will drop quickly through 35 to 30 kts, and the sharp increase in drag in the flare reduces forward speed, touchdown on the spot, and stop it in about 50 to 60 mtrs. n NIL wind conditions, sometimes it might need a quick burst of power in the flare to arrest the sink as you flare, but not usually if you get it right. then get the nose down and get on the brakes. or if you need to stop quicker, kill the ignition as you hit the brakes.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsAJs3grzH0

 

 

[eightyknots]

This pilot, in a Zenith CH-701 flies a complete pattern from take-off to landing in about 45 seconds:

 

 

The headwind is reported to be 5 knots.

 

 

[terryc]

This is my favorite stol utube clip, I've watched it about fifty times.

 

 

 

[eightyknots]

This is my favorite stol utube clip, I've watched it about fifty times.

I hadn't seen that one before, TerryC. I like it too.

 

 

[Spin]

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a98_1303334732

 

Twin Otter doing what it does best.

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

Metalman have a look at post number 22 in this thread

 

 

[Guest nunans]

This thread is very interesting to me as I am trying to get an idea of how much room different aircraft need to get in and out safely, I was suprised to read Maj's post about the 300m "definately a storch strip". with my very little real world experience and only manufacturers specs to go on I would have taken it that even a J160 would get in and out in less than 300m at MTOW. (going off thier web site it's 210 and 238m ground roll take off and land).

 

Lots of manu specs have me thinking that thier A/C can clear a 15m obstacle in less than 500m even on models that don't look like they have a big flat bottom or under cambered wing. and often the same planes are spec'd to cruise quite fast.

 

My situation is that I have hangar room in a paddock which would allow a 550m n/s level strip with a fence at one end (behind that is clear for another 150m then gum trees), at the other end the ground slopes away to a valley so the approach that end is completely clear. The other consideration is that the ground in question is at 3000' msl.

 

So where does that leave me?

 

I'm not that fond of jabs anyway and wasn't considering flying them after my trainings done, but i can clearly see that a j160 wouldn't suit regardless of the specs

 

The only other experience i have is being in a cherokee six flying in and out of an 800m strip fenced at both ends at a higher elevation than my proposed location. so there must be some hope??

 

Do i need a storch? or can i get away with a savvy or 701? would a 750 offer better stol preformance with it's larger wing than the 701?

 

I have a neighbour that flys a slepcev storch (also a maule and rotorway) and his only issue with the storch is the tandem seating as he prefers side by side.

 

Otherwise would a bantam/thruster/drifter or similar be an option? maybe even a trike? do light rag and tube machines offer good stol performace generally? I'm certainly not opposed to flying simple fun aircraft as long as they can get two people and some fuel out of my strip.

 

Lastly is a geared rotax 912 swinging a larger prop for example a better option for stol ops than a jab direct drive? (i'm not talking about reliability or anything brand related I'm just getting at a big prop turning slowly compared with a smaller prop turning faster both being driven by the same number of ponies)

 

Sorry about all the questions, i'm just trying to learn as much as i can so i don't buy the wrong flying machine..

 

Thanks in advance for any info available.

 

Scott

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

Hi Scott

 

I have made 2 of 400 mtr strips on my property and I am currently building a Savannah VG XL and there is plenty of room. Look at this video of 2 savs and 2 ch701 landing and taking off at my place just after the strips were dozed and it was a crap day of a 20knot crosswind. The last one to take off had 2 persons on board. Even in a crosswind the 2 person 701 took maybe 75mtrs to takeoff the others around 50mtrs

 

My selection was the SAV for its outstanding stol and performace for what you get

 

 

Mark

 

 

[eightyknots]

Do i need a storch? or can i get away with a savvy or 701? would a 750 offer better stol preformance with it's larger wing than the 701?I have a neighbour that flys a slepcev storch (also a maule and rotorway) and his only issue with the storch is the tandem seating as he prefers side by side.

Otherwise would a bantam/thruster/drifter or similar be an option? maybe even a trike? do light rag and tube machines offer good stol performace generally? I'm certainly not opposed to flying simple fun aircraft as long as they can get two people and some fuel out of my strip.

Look at post #35 for an African Savannah landing on the intersection of a road and then turning right up the side street from that intersection. Admittedly, the pilot must have had some headwind when landing but it is still very impressive STOL performance from the the Savvy. This kind of performance has sold me (I just need the required funds to buy one )

 

 

[Guest rocketdriver]

I`ve got quite a few hrs in a Zenith 701 and in my opinion if the maximum angle of climb is going to be used on take-off,keep praying that the engine doesn`t quit!I`m not saying that it can`t or shouldn`t be done! I`m saying that there`s a lot less room for error,closer to none at all,in fact!!!

 

For maximum safety at low altitude,the nose attitude ( IAS ) should be such that if the engine does stops the aircraft won`t stall before the nose can be lowered.

 

Frank.

Frank, you've hit the nail on the head for me .... Many recreational STOL designs are high powerered relative to their WEIGHT and also High drag relative to their weight. So they climb exceptionally well under power and stop remarkedly rapidly if the fan stops. Even if you stuff the nose down straight away, at low altitude you just can't get the speed back to be able to flare ... learn't about this about twenty years ago when the GA CFI and I were learning how to fly a Thruster with a 582 that the club had just bought. The answer, which I believe Tony Hayes later advocated, was to climb out at 55 kts, until at least 200 ft, not the 45Kts which was easily achievable. Lousy rate of climb but recoverable if and when the engine stopped ....

 

If you are flying STOL, I suggest that , at altitude, you practise a full power climb at increasingly slow airspeeds, each time reducing the power quickly(not "chop the throttle) and see how much height you consume revcovering to straight and level at your normal approach speed. Just be careful not to shock cool your engine and re open the throttle gradually to rewarm the cylinders before reapplying full power. In the Thruster we had, anything less than 55 kts two up and under 200 feet meant a bent undercarriage at best if the engine stopped ....

 

just my two penn'orth

 

cheers RD

 

 

[terryc]

 

the above is a link to youtube video of the new zenith 750 to replace the one damaged at sun & fun.

 

It looks and sounds great and the glass panel looks nice too.