FlyingVizsla Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 ABC news are reporting a missing cargo plane (Thursday 25 Feb) The twin-engine Aero Commander left Cairns early this morning and was due to land at Horn Island in the Torres Strait around 8:00am (AEST). Authorities say it is a mystery because the pilot spoke to air traffic controllers 15 minutes before the scheduled landing and there was no indication at any stage there were problems. http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/02/24/3148232.htm Hope it turns out OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spin Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Bit of a puzzle, no further comms and no beacon, unfortunately it doesn't sound too promising at this stage. I've been following the discussion on the prune, seems from some reports that they aren't even sure how many POB - of course that could also be the media getting the story twisted, I see the abc say only pilot and carrying cargo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddogmorgan Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 I regurlary fly to Horn with work, quite often we would take two Commanders (one freight and one pax) if the Dornier was otherwise busy etc. I used to take the right seat in the Cargo aircraft. The last pilot I flew with was a local here, and after my last trip with him really encouraged me to finally go get my licence. Doesn't sound very good... [ATTACH]13197.vB[/ATTACH][ATTACH]13196.vB[/ATTACH][ATTACH]13198.vB[/ATTACH] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 I was in the Beaver bar at Shute Harbour last night having a fairly serious session with the locals. Alan Chin who flys Caravans out of Horn and lives at Shute, texted his wife Suzy in the bar around 7.30 pm to let her know he was fine. Apparently he was airborne at the time of the incident, the weather was shxx, and he recieved a brief 'mayday' from the aircraft which was at around 1000 ft, not far from Horn, and in the soup. He then said he was involved in searching for the aircraft. I have heard no more today................Maj... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spin Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 Maj 1 - Media 0! Thanks for the update, damn, doesn't sound promising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddogmorgan Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 Well it wasn't the commander I fly in...apparently rego is VH-WZU[ATTACH]13209.vB[/ATTACH] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nong Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 No comment about Horn Island but anyone considering flying in one of these would do well to inform themselves of the problems with the structure of Aero Commander twins ( all models ). Do yourself a favour. http://www.casa.gov.au/airworth/papers/aerocommander.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nong Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 If the link doesnt work just GOOGLE "The Aero Commander Chronicle" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddogmorgan Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 Yeh I think if we knew what went wrong with any particular model of aircraft we would never get on them...737's, A330's, A380's, Cessna's all have their issues...Considering we don't know what happened I think it's a bit premature to start blaming the model of the aircraft! Many things may have happened, pilot incapacitation, fuel issues, engine issues...we don't know. The Commander first flew in the late 40's, show me an aircraft that has been around that long with NO problems! One that comes to mind is the Bonanza, they were death traps for awhile too, many breaking up in flight etc....I wouldn't go up in a J160 myself but that's just me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ozzie Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 Average age of most of these types? 30 odd years. Would you travel in a public taxi, bus etc that was this old? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddogmorgan Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 I regularly fly in aircraft of this age. Age really is irrelevant in aircraft. Of more importance is how they are flown, in what conditions, maintenance etc etc. Some of these aircraft fly more in a month than some rec aircraft do in a year. They are also maintained by dedicated professionals. If being a 'young' aircraft was a pre-requisite for safety, then how do we explain a certain brand of recreational aircraft regularly falling out of the sky with engine failures? Would Nong recommend that we 'do ourselves a favour and be informed?' Nong do you inform your passengers of your particular aircrafts shortcomings? I think not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 Yeh I think if we knew what went wrong with any particular model of aircraft we would never get on them...737's, A330's, A380's, Cessna's all have their issues...Considering we don't know what happened I think it's a bit premature to start blaming the model of the aircraft! Many things may have happened, pilot incapacitation, fuel issues, engine issues...we don't know. The Commander first flew in the late 40's, show me an aircraft that has been around that long with NO problems! One that comes to mind is the Bonanza, they were death traps for awhile too, many breaking up in flight etc....I wouldn't go up in a J160 myself but that's just me. "From approximately 1961 to 1993 24 crashed when spar failures caused the loss of the wing in Flight, 35 more spars were found cracked" Source: Wikipedia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddogmorgan Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 Do you have the stats handy for Jab engine failures turbo? I doubt any Jabs will ever last that long in the first place...Those in glasshouses and all that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 Interesting you mention taxis Ozzie. Last time I was in one the driver told me that taxis can only be used for five years, and that the Yaris electric one that we were in, paid for itself in four years, so that the last year was free, providing the batteries held out. VH-WZU I believe is one that was operated in the past by Wayne Robertson AKA: mountain man, as Barrier aviation. He also operated several BN-2 Islanders, one of which was VH-WRR. My gut feeling on this one with the small amout of info I have, is that it is not structual, but more likely engine failure or poor weather conditions.....................................................Maj... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 Do you have the stats handy for Jab engine failures turbo? I doubt any Jabs will ever last that long in the first place...Those in glasshouses and all that I'm not too sure where the Jab fits in here - an engine failure does give you a few more chances than a catastrophic wing failure. I'm not suggesting that structural failure caused this accident by the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben87r Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 Nong, interesting read, good to see how far we have come over the years and that we are learning from errors of years past. Do composite AC have fatigue issues as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 Nong, interesting read, good to see how far we have come over the years and that we are learning from errors of years past. Do composite AC have fatigue issues as well? Yes they do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 Not nice news at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 Having worked on Aerocommanders in the past, I can tell you that they are generally a well built machine, and can be quite a complicated machine to maintain. Although only a six place aeroplane, they are highly regarded for their speed and efficiency by those who fly them. They have done many, many years of good service throughout the world, carring cargo and passengers. Anyone who has watched one being demonstrated in the hands of Bob Hoover will be aware of their capabilities. They are built like a 'big' machine, and have many complicated systems on board that you would find in much larger aircraft of the period. The main landing gear for example, turns as it retracts to lay flat against the bottom of the engine cowl when retracted. Anyone who has at least looked into the rear maintenance compartment behind the cabin, will know what I mean when I say complicated, as it is full of cable runs and hydrylic lines and components. The standard piston version uses 2 x 6 cylinder Lycoming engines, and the Aerocommander 600 is fitted with Garret turboprops. Both fast efficent machines for what they are used for. The beautifull tapered wing is a version of what is referred to as the 'Lockheed wing', and is similiar in design to those used on the Lockheed Super constallation, Lockheed P-38 Lightning, Lockheed Loadstar, Hudson and Harpoon, and others................................Maj... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nong Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 Fellas.....as I said...I make no speculation re. Horn Island but the incident reminded me of the CASA paper so I mentioned it. Regarding Jabs.....I always imagined that I would decommission any airframe that got to what I would guess to be time ex. At ,say, 10,000hrs, surely value has been had so one might happily turn it into a boat and buy a new one. The throw away concept is valid. For the record. I have often informed passengers/students that flying these small aircraft is a significantly dangerous pursuit but that we try to strike the right balance. It's fair to say that I don't rave on about how safe it is. I think that is 'selling the lie'. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spin Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 Experts check if debris linked to missing plane <HR style="COLOR: #000063" SIZE=1><!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->By Brad Ryan Air safety authorities are investigating whether debris found yesterday in the Torres Strait, off far north Queensland, is connected to a missing plane. The plane, flown by a 37-year-old man, left Cairns for Horn Island last Thursday. Authorities say search crews yesterday found debris, including a tub, near Dugong Island, about 80 kilometres east of Horn Island. The debris is being assessed, while air and sea searches focus on waters between Dugong and Moa islands. There has been no sign of the pilot, who last made radio contact just before his twin-engine plane was due to land at Horn Island. Authorities say it is a mystery because the pilot spoke to air traffic controllers 15 minutes before the scheduled landing and there was no indication at any stage there were problems. (ABC) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 The research into the cause of the Rockwell Commander spar failures was done here in Australia, by DCA or whatever the name back then. During manufacture a bend was formed to obtain the shape of the tapered wing and this bend was the cause of the failures. (.It's on the CASA file). Australia also did the first full fatigue test of the Dassault Mirage wing. I thinK it was at Fishermans bend. I remember seeing it there, bending up and down for ages. The maker had never done one, ( at least to that extent). We tend to keep our airforce planes in service a long time in Oz. Nev I'm not suggesting there was a failure in this case. In the weather conditions up there anything could have happened. N.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 The latest I've heard is that wreckage has been found but not much. A body was found, but it wasn't that of the pilot (how many bodies are floating around up there anyway ?) The search has been called off. Bit of a mystery as the plane was believed to be in the pattern for Horn or close to it. It is understood he was on instruments, and made two 'ops normal' calls previous...............................Maj... Facthunter, Dassault had of course done stress anyalis on the Mirage during the design of them. Our Airforce however were putting three time the hours on the aircraft PER DAY, which was way more than the French had figured on. They suggested we fit all new wings or do some stress analysis, which is probabily what you saw at Fishermans bend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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