Aircraft Noise Complaint

[turboplanner]

I've got some knowledge on the situation now, sending it to Brett.

 

 

[HeadInTheClouds]

The same user has also posted a fair few photos of commercial flights, and also of a PPG flying around AND overhead and doesn't seem to be complaining about the noise from that, infact he/she seems to be in admiration. Hypocrite.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[David Isaac]

It is illegal to fly over anyones property below 500ft without their permission unless you are approaching or departing an airfield, I assume this also means Authorised Landing Areas ALA's so if this is the case are the strips on Hindmarsh Island authorised?

Hi Alan,

 

I know your and this post is little off topic but I thought it relevant to your post. I am not sure if you are aware of this or not so I apologise in advance if I am preaching to the converted.

 

ALA used to be the acronym for 'Authorised Landing Area' some 20 years ago. Now the meaning is 'Aeroplane Landing Area'. In actuality nothing much has changed other than the name. Use of the word ‘Authorised’ was considered inappropriate because there was no formal ‘Authorisation’.

 

There is a fair bit of misunderstanding about ALAs so I will try and explain what they really are.

 

Even though the old name ‘Authorised’ was used, they were never formally authorised or required to be authorised , they were ‘deemed’ authorised if they met the dimensional requirements as published in the Civil Aviation Advisory Publication 92-1 (1) - Guidelines for Aeroplane Landing Areas, (runway strip width, transitional areas, slope and splays) and the length and altitude must be such that the aircraft intending to use the ALA can do so safely based on performance data within the Pilot Operating Handbook.

 

Just because a landing area may meet normal ALA requirements does not mean it is suitable for all aircraft. As an example say a 650 metre ALA at say 4,000’ elevation at Walcha would be suitable for a C182 at MTOW, but would certainly not be a suitable ALA for a C172 at MTOW. ALAs dimensions are deemed suitable for an aircraft when the published dimensional guidelines are followed and the elevation and temperature and length mean that the aircraft using it can safely takeoff within the splays defined in the CASA guidelines.

 

ALA dimensions are not strictly ‘legally' required, they are guidelines. There is however, a significant problem as insurers expect that normal operations are always conducted into landing areas that meet the ALA guidelines. If a pilot had the misfortune to have a landing or takeoff incident at a non ALA, the insurer may deny a claim unless the insurer had previously accepted non ALA operations in the policy. One way strips are certainly an insurance issue and must be specifically covered.

 

 

[Guest SAJabiruflyer]

Is this your complainant? Perhaps, he has found some more people he can pursuade to join him, when he received no satisfactory response previously. Here's a photo of two aircraft alleged to have been low flying over his property. He claims that "permanent residents at his end of Hindmarsh Island have previously complained...--

------

 

Hi David, no that's not the author of the letter. The author would be acting on behalf of a resident or residents in his role as the Chair of the Ratepayers Assoc. I believe that just because his view is different to mine, doesnt mean his is neccessarily wrong. Everyone deserves to have their views heard.

 

I know from my own training that circuit work from YGWA does not impede over the township - unless you do really really outrageously wide circuits. We do fly over Hindmarsh Island, but for myself I am usually over 2000'. Over the Coorong, I wouldnt like to be much below 2000-2500' due to terrain and Mr Percival and his friends.

 

Safe flying :)

[kaz3g]

[quote="davidh10

 

Clearly the person has written in his capacity of Chairman of the Ratepayers Assoc., so he may not even be the one with the disaffection. He is possibly acting on a motion created by some disaffected person and a few hangers on, plus some who wouldn't complain in their own right. Two things are evident from the letter:-

 

1. Someone is annoyed, but has insufficient evidence to do anything, so they are publicly fishing for other disaffected residents to provide subjective evidence.
    
    
   
2. They have not taken the obvious step of talking with the Goolwa aerodrome operator, or he'd either not have written or complained about the discussion.
    
    
   

 

 

 

 

And unfortunately some people just like to flex their muscles and complain to make themselves feel important. They become chairs of groups like a Ratepayers Assocn for just that reason.

 

The decision of the Victorian Tribunal sitting in its Planning Appeals role in relation to Tyabb airfield is a very useful precedent if push comes to shove. See

 

Hoban v Mornington Peninsula SC [2007] VCAT 1931 (17 October 2007)

 

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/cases/vic/VCAT/2007/1931.html

 

The Tribunal rejected complaints of noise as reasons to refuse a development application and referred instead to the purpose for which the land was occupied since around 1960 and noted that it was there before the complainants.

 

That said, we have to live with our neighbours and adoption of things like fly-neighbourly procedures are essential if we are to avoid major legal disputes occurring. I have to say that C200 series aircraft have a particularly high noise factor and are even banned from some runways/circuit directions at Moorabbin for this reason. These are often used for parachute ops and their incessant drone to 10,000 plus in the Yarra Valley is a current source of annoyance for many residents.

 

Both Coldstream and Lilydale are located within the Green Wedge (environmental) landscape as prior non-conforming uses. The owners of Coldstream are second generation farmers there and have always worked to maintain good neighbour relations. Even so, one neighbour who purchased his 20 acres from the parent farm property and built only recently is now regularly complaining to Council about the noise despite the fact that his property is not actually overflown. Makes it hard for all of us. Coldstream has its 50th coming up in March so he can't say he didn't know it was there!

 

kaz

 

 

[Guernsey]

Hi David,

 

Thanks for your post No.31 very helpful and appreciated.

 

What I was particularly interested in is the requirement to ask adjoining property owners permission to fly over their property below 500 feet if the landing strip is not in any way approved for use as an airfield, airstrip, ALA etc.

 

Alan.

 

 

[David Isaac]

Hi David,Thanks for your post No.31 very helpful and appreciated.

What I was particularly interested in is the requirement to ask adjoining property owners permission to fly over their property below 500 feet if the landing strip is not in any way approved for use as an airfield, airstrip, ALA etc.

 

Alan.

It is an interesting one Alan and it appears the regulations allow you to do this. Remember an ALA can be a private strip used for your personal aircraft use and under those conditions one would hope a person would seek to keep their neighbors happy. Personal use would include friends coming to visit. However, turn your private ALA into a public ALA and that is an altogether different matter and I suspect that you would need development consent for that purpose and then wait for all the worms to crawl out from under the fence if you now what I mean.

 

 

[dazza 38]

Yeh I have heard all the BS, before.Amberley was established around 1942, 1943.When I was there we still had the public complain about jet noise all the time.I reckon they should toughen up .lol Wankers will always buy near airfields because houses and land are cheap.Then they turn around and complain about a/c noise.

 

 

[kaz3g]

It is an interesting one Alan and it appears the regulations allow you to do this. Remember an ALA can be a private strip used for your personal aircraft use and under those conditions one would hope a person would seek to keep their neighbors happy. Personal use would include friends coming to visit. However, turn your private ALA into a public ALA and that is an altogether different matter and I suspect that you would need development consent for that purpose and then wait for all the worms to crawl out from under the fence if you now what I mean.

There is another VCAT decision which I can't put my finger on at the moment but it held that the use of land zoned rural as a private ALA was within the ordinary planning scheme and did not require any further permit... ie farms need to be able to use aircraft for agricultural and transport purposes just as they use tractors and trucks.

 

kaz

 

 

[poteroo]

When the RAAF comes to town - then you have noise!

 

We operate around and over 33,000 citizens who never complain about light aircraft, but when the RAAF brings its' BAE Hawks down for a few sorties - that really gets their blood pressure elevated! Interesting that we have RAAF PC-9's here several times a week, making tactical arrivals, and often in formations of 4 - yet there's never a murmur.

 

Last week the airports' phone rang off the hook with the Hawks activity, and it was mostly from horse owners. The staff took great delight in asking the complainants if they supported the ADF, and the defence of their nation!

 

happy days,

 

 

[David Isaac]

There is another VCAT decision which I can't put my finger on at the moment but it held that the use of land zoned rural as a private ALA was within the ordinary planning scheme and did not require any further permit... ie farms need to be able to use aircraft for agricultural and transport purposes just as they use tractors and trucks.kaz

Hi Kaz, there was also a very similar ruling in NSW that Bill Hamilton spoke of in a thread about this issue last year.

 

 

[Guest SAJabiruflyer]

It seems that even without any input, the letter has motivated some more discussion. I have it on good authority that this weeks paper will have 2 letters from residents of the noise affected area, writing to say the noise does not bother them. And an article will appear this week as well. I will scan it and pop it on here when it comes out.

 

Safe flying

 

 

[peter]

I live close by the island strip and we drive past there daily, the numbers of aircraft quoted are clearly overstated. The vast majority of days there is no-one flying from HI "international". The other strips on the island are used only rarely. If I can be of any help give me a call 0428779699.

 

Cheers Peter

 

 

[Guest SAJabiruflyer]

This article appeared in today's paper

 

http://www.victorharbortimes.com.au/news/local/news/general/plane-pain/2393827.aspx

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

Good article, & nice input SAJF. It's not often a newspaper will include the positive side also, negative and scary being the sellers. I take it this is a free paper?

 

My local paper is dubbed "The weekly carp" and it goes directly to trash without being opened.

 

 

[Guest SAJabiruflyer]

Hi Gnarly, no the paper is not free, it's $1.60 and owned by FairFax. The journo is a good bloke, and fair. I had about 5 minutes to provide input as he rung me when I was "on the road" and I had to think of some statements then and there. The article is quite fair and only contains 1 factual error - it's not my plane!

 

It would be great if we get people voting in the poll that is on the Website, as these are published in the paper at a later date, however to be fair it should of course only be locals who are in the area of Goolwa, Hindmarsh Island, Coorong...

 

 

[turboplanner]

It would be great if we get people voting in the poll that is on the Website, as these are published in the paper at a later date, however to be fair it should of course only be locals who are in the area of Goolwa, Hindmarsh Island, Coorong...

He's right - Hit the buttons - do it now guys!

 

 

[Guest SAJabiruflyer]

I'd like to thank everyone for their input and comments. Us Aviators need to stick together to defend our freedom to enjoy our chosen hobby, while keeping in mind and respecting the rights and concerns of others who may be affected by such things as noise. I did have an interesting discussion today with a client who commented on the article, and told me she gets shivers and feels "bad" when a particular "Warbird" type aircraft flies over her home (in Victor Harbor, not Goolwa). Turns out this brings back bad memories of her time in England during WWII and the associated fear of enemy a/c on bombing or dog fighting runs. So I guess there is more to it for some than others.

 

Particular thanks to Turboplanner for his input via email. Will keep everyone posted on and developments.

 

 

[dazza 38]

I was very truthful.Hard as I try I will never hear any aircraft noise from South Australia. I live in QLD.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Well I hope that comment doesn't appear in next week's Times when they finalise their poll. Don't forget the freedoms of these guys are involved.

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

Saw some photos of the Lockheed YO-3 'quiet star' at Edwards AFB, very interesting Vietnam war era aircraft. The prop was geared down to about 800 rpm & serious exhaust mufflers etc. Maybe not being able to hear the aircraft going overhead would creep some people out too.

 

 

[dazza 38]

Well I hope that comment doesn't appear in next week's Times when they finalise their poll. Don't forget the freedoms of these guys are involved.

I pretty sure that most people will relize that my comment was purely a light hearted joke. Well I hope they do.If the Paper uses my comment, they would have to be pretty stupid.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

You do realise most journalists now use Facebook and Twitter as sources. scary but true.

 

 

[turboplanner]

And some officials who make unexpected and controversial decisions sometimes make mistakes by boasting on a racing forum about the horses they own, which, when you add up the training fees per horse indicates an income twenty times their salary!

 

 

[dazza 38]

You do realise most journalists now use Facebook and Twitter as sources. scary but true.

True, but nobody can look at my page unless the are listed as a friend.If I get a friend notice, from somebody asking to be friends and if i dont know them, or they are not a friend of a existing friend.I dont add them on.People can see on other friends walls what I type, but I never type anything that would be important information.Also I use my real name on there, if nobody knows my real name, they wont be able to find me, if they do find out my real name that doesnt realy matter because i have to add them as a friend to see my photos ,video,s etc.I dont have any personal information on there anyway.Most friends on there are from here.