Compulsion Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 Can anyone tell me how insurance works for a student at a flying school. If under the tutor liege of an instructor you where to have an accident how is the damage covered. Is the school solely responsible for costs or is the student liable? If the aircraft is cross hired by the School does this change everything? The aircraft I fly is cross hired and the airframe is not insured. Where would this leave me as the student in the case of an accident? Can I take out an insurance policy that would cover my costs? I know you will all say ask your school but they are not keen to discuss this too much. I don't have an issue taking out my own insurance if I need to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryanm Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 If you are suspect or aware that the aircraft isn't insured, then I strongly suggest you don't continue to fly it. Especially at the training stage when accidents can and do happen. My suspicion would be compounded if said flying school were reluctant to talk about it. I don't quite remember how insurance works with RA-Aus, but the aircraft itself is insured through a company such as QBE. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaz3g Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Can anyone tell me how insurance works for a student at a flying school. If under the tutor liege of an instructor you where to have an accident how is the damage covered. Is the school solely responsible for costs or is the student liable? If the aircraft is cross hired by the School does this change everything? The aircraft I fly is cross hired and the airframe is not insured. Where would this leave me as the student in the case of an accident? Can I take out an insurance policy that would cover my costs? I know you will all say ask your school but they are not keen to discuss this too much. I don't have an issue taking out my own insurance if I need to. If the school is a responsible one, it will have adequate insurance that covers all legal aspects of the aircraft's use in training -- airframe, pob and third parties. In the absence of insurance or a written contract between the parties apportioning liability, the common law will prevail. The flying school will be liable if negligence is proven but the flying school may then join the student in any action if it can show contributory negligence (eg the student does some low flying and prangs while flying solo). I also would not fly that aircraft or have anything else to do with that school if they are uninsured. What about third party PII? Who pays if someone else is hurt? What is their financial situation if you get hurt? Doesn't sound good to me. kaz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djpacro Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 After I got my RAA certificate one of the local pilots told me that the aeroplane was not insured and I was angry that the school had not told me, especially before I did some solo flying in it. No comment from them as to what happens if I prang it. Some of my friends choose not to insure their aeroplanes (they have third party) and invite me to fly them but I always decline. Fine to be cheerful and generous before an accident. Things are always different afterwards as kaz would know. One of the big GA schools has a relevant item in its new syllabus, for a course just starting now, at milestones such as GFPT - the student is to check the insurance certificate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djpacro Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 What is their financial situation if you get hurt? ... kaz Per the usual aviation policy: the pilot is not covered but passengers are. A student is not a passenger so not covered for injury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapphire Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 I know a pilot who pranged an uninsured RAA a/c while under instruction. The instructor grounded him for a couple of months. "That's your punishment for wrecking my a/c" were his famous words. My response would be " What's your punishment for being a lousy instructor?" Membership to RAA includes substancial insurance [in the millions] for passenger and people on the ground including property. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaz3g Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Per the usual aviation policy: the pilot is not covered but passengers are. A student is not a passenger so not covered for injury. If the school is running so lean it cuts costs by not paying for airframe insurance on its aircraft, then it probably doesn't have the assets to justify litigation in the event of negligence by the operator and the standard of maintenance also becomes a question to be considered. Kaz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djpacro Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Kaz, my particular example was a privately owned aeroplane online with the school. You are right in that the school had nil assets so if it was sued it could simply shut down with a new school popping up with the same people shortly afterwards (this sort of thing happens not just in aviation of course). You can easily get "renters"insurance. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Compulsion Posted July 1, 2012 Author Share Posted July 1, 2012 Before anyone gets the wrong idea I am not casting any dispersions on the school that I use. They are a great bunch of instructors and nice guys. I simply am asking a question of the knowledgable members of this forum. I cannot afford to pay 60k for an aircraft I don't own if the worst should happen. I will ask the CFI next time I fly and if need be I will seek advice on getting my own insurance. I know my instructors read the forums and I would never wish to offend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68volksy Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Airframe insurance is really something that should be mandatory and the cost in the grand scheme of things is really quite minimal. If you were flying solo and damaged it then I would think they can simply ask you to pay whether it is insured or not. Then there will no doubt be the lengthy and ongoing legal stoush. I do know that most aircraft that are cross-hired have noted on their insurance policy that it covers the flying school and all students authorised to fly it by the school. So in that case if there was an accident the insurance company would still cover all costs. Many RA-Aus policies also have extra public liability added as part of the insurance. As an aside it's also good policy to ask to see the maintenance documents for RA-Aus aircraft. GA aircraft will have the maintenance release to certify airworthiness. RA-Aus aircraft are maintained differently. Some times the documentation can leave a little to be desired - especially with aircraft components that have a limited life. My CFI said I was one of only a handful of students/hirers to have asked to see the maintenance documents in her 18 years of operating! Needless to say they were promptly brought forward and very well notated. I actually found it interesting to see how all the records tie together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
storchy neil Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 i did have my aircraft on line it was insured for abitno flight training so as people learning were not at risk my understanding of your case you would be total responsable should you have an incident and would be liable for all cost and the loss of earnings of that aircraft as pilot incomand do not take out insurance on someone elses aircraft as the aircraft may be under finance to someone else as previous stated if the aircraft is not insured dont fly it neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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