Failed Climb Out

[ChangeMan]

June 14, 2007 12:00pm

 

A PILOT and his passenger have escaped injury after their light plane crashed during an emergency landing south of Adelaide this morning.

 

Police said the two-seater fixed wing Jabiru plane took off from the Aldinga airstrip this morning but lost power and stalled shortly after.

 

 

 

It flipped as it came down, finally coming to rest among grapevines on a local property about 9.15am today.

 

 

 

The two men on board walked away from the crash but were taken to the nearby Flinders Medical Centre for observation.

 

A SA Ambulance Service spokeswoman said the two occupants in the aircraft were both "okay".

 

"The two occupants are out of the plane, they are walking around, they're okay," the ambulance spokeswoman said.

 

 

 

The aircraft landed in a vineyard at Adey Road, Aldinga, about 60km south of Adelaide, the police spokesman said.

 

 

 

A police spokesman said a crane would be brought in to remove the plane with the operation expected to take some time.

 

This information is from the Adelaide Advertiser. Unfortunately we will probably have to wait some time to find out what went wrong.

 

 

 

[Guest Sabre]

Thank goodness they walked away.....just some cracked fiberglass..

 

 

[Ultralights]

theres the problem right there! someone put the wheel and spat on up side down!

 

on a serious note, glad all are ok!

 

 

[Guest Fred Bear]

Yes good result here. Thank God for grape vines (and wine)

 

;) to the pilots.

 

Great statement by witnesses too:

 

"I couldn't believe it. For something to happen like that and for them to be so cool, calm and collected, I thought these guys are either in deep shock or very experienced at falling out of the sky," he said.

 

 

[Ben Longden]

What a classic line!!!

 

Sort of like our friends sig about throwing yourself at the ground and missing.....

 

Ben

 

 

[Deskpilot]

See my earlier post under Aviation News, same thread running. I went down to Aldinga today but none of my club members were around. I spoke to another instructor from Adelaide Biplanes,the school that was covering the conversion training to the Jab, but he was very evasive. All I found out was that it was indeed an engine failure after take off/touch and go? The aircraft had just turned downwind when the engine failed. The instructor is 70 years old and the training pilot is unknown to me. Apparently, there's a club, or syndicate, meeting tonight.

 

As for Jab engine failures, I had my first experience last Saturday.

 

Its been a while since I last flew and seeing as the rain had finally stopped here in S.A., I booked a plane for 1400 hrs. The weather on the coast was over cast with no wind, but over the hills at Murray Bridge it was clear skies and a steady breeze straight down 20. After an unforeseen delay, I eventually got airborne at 1500 hrs. The plane I was flying had recently been completely rebuilt by Jabiru after being landed on its roof by a student. I was briefed that its tickover was a little on the fast side so to make sure that I pulled the throttle fully back when necessary.

 

After a surprisingly quick lift off I got into the swing of things and carried out 4 circuits. Being satisfied that I hadn't forgotten any thing, or so I thought, I departed to the north eastern corner of the training area and climbed to 3000 ft for some stalls and tight turns. At this time I noticed that there were a few clouds drifting over at about 3500 ft. Fine, I'll stay below them. After 3 stalls at varying power levels, followed by a steep right hand orbit then roll over to a left hand orbit and straight into a low power stall, the engine stalled. Hmmm, maybe I'd pulled a bit too hard on the throttle. The prop tried to wind mill but stopped after half a revolution so, having ascertained that my glide was set up correctly, I tried a powered restart. Nothing. Tried again and the engine fired up and ran smoothly again. I decided to head back to base although I had only been flying for about 30 minutes. Turning back towards the airfield had me facing the sun that was getting low in the sky. At this time I noticed that it was getting quite hazy and that there were more clouds coming in from the south. Due to other traffic, I joined in the conventional cross wind fashion. I was at 75knots when I turned for base so I pulled the throttle all the way back and reset my trim ready to apply first stage flaps. Then the engine stalled again. This time I could not get it to go again. The battery seemed to be flat. I made a call declaring a glide approach due to engine failure and turned for a curving approach to the field. My only concerns were, 1, all paddocks have been recently plowed and seeded and therefore not ideal landing zones, and 2, there are 2 barbed wire fences running across the flight path just short of the threshhold, oh, plus a slight incline up to the runway height. 'This is going to be touch and go' went through my mind but I, thankfully, judged it right and cleared the fences by about 10 feet and just managed to get it onto the runway rather than piling into the upward slope. A slightly heavier touchdown than I would have liked but all was safe and I pulled off the runway as soon as possible. The plane stopped short of clearing the markers so I had to pull it clear just as a Tobago came in at what seemed a high rate of knots.

 

Now, what had happened. After some discussion with the CFI, it is most probable that firstly, I had experienced carby icing. Being a clear bright day with few clouds, I didn't think carby heat would be necessary. In fact, I didn't think carby heat at all, at any time. I had no problems during my circuits so why should things change in the following 15 minutes, and I certainly didn't switch on to the increasing humidity and dropping OAT. I will own up to poor airmanship but believe me, I won't make the same mistakes again.

 

As for the engine not restarting, it turned out that the fuse in the charging circuit had blown and for whatever reason, there's no charging failure indicator fitted. Obviously the battery had been going flat over a couple of flights but no one had mentioned starting problems. Just my luck I guess, that it should finally have only enough grunt left to power the radio.

 

I still can't get over the fact that I was so calm about the whole episode. Still. it's what we all practiced during our training and hopefully are still practicing. If you're not, make a point of doing so on your next flight. I must admit, I liked the silent glide. Maybe I'll try my hand at slope soaring some time.

 

Cheers, and safe flying, Doug

 

 

[slartibartfast]

Great post Doug, and thanks for all the info.

 

Congrats on getting her down again safely. We certainly don't need another accident in the papers until at least 2012.

 

Ross

 

 

[BigPete]

Deskpilot - well done, good to see the training kicked in.

 

The good news is you may never have this problem again! I believe that sooner or later it will happen to all of us.

 

But what are the odds of it happening again - must be a lot less. ;)

 

regards

 

 

[Guest Fred Bear]

Doug, thanks for sharing and being so honest about the whole episode. Flying late afternoon, and this comment you made:

 

At this time I noticed that it was getting quite hazy and that there were more clouds coming in from the south

That was an indicator there could (possibly) be moisture in the air taking on the appearance of haze. Interesting how the atmosphere works after a warmer day then rapidly cooling afternoons this time of year of course producing moisture which in turn could lead to icing. I would not call your incident 'poor airmanship' as you say. There are a million and one things that can go wrong and for you on this day one did but you concentrated on the task at hand which was to keep cool and land your Jab which you did without incident. That deserves a congratulations in itself Well done.

 

 

[Yenn]

Well done Doug. It must make you feel good to know that the training works well.

 

I had a similar problem at Old Station in the early morning. Engine stopped on base turn, no problem plenty of height and anyway it started on the starter. I continued with a bit of power and being high on finals pulled it all off and stalled engine again, couldn't be bothered to restart so I landed and started on the roll out.

 

Thursday I went out to see if I could make it happen again and using carbie heat I could pull the power right off and get the nose well up to reduce revs and it kept going, so I am assuming I had carbie ice. Never had it before with the Jab engine even in what I would think were worse conditions. I will now go back to using carby heat on low throttle settings. I don't know if I can restart the Jab engine with a dive, may try it one day.

 

I had thought that with GA experience of several cases of carbie ice and an engine failure that I would not be caught out. How wrong I was!

 

 

[Guest Fred Bear]

Cold afternoons, lots of moisture with the rapid afternoon. Pull that carby heat with low revs! Glad you are all ok. Well done guys!

 

 

[Yenn]

A follow up on my experience. Today I had another go at getting the reevs down low and with Carbie heat on I got the engine to stop on finals again, so I have upped the slow running to 970rpm. It was less than 800 so that was the problem and with this colder weather it doesn't get warm at all. 4 further attempts to stall the engine have failed so it seems to be OK now.

 

 

[Guest brentc]

Nice to hear that you got it on the ground safely Doug, however I am most concerned that Carby heat wasn't used in the first place. Carby ice can occur in most conditions and is highly likely at this time of year, particularly with rain / low clouds in the area. Whenever I have performed stalls in RA and GA we always religeously use carby heat and the same goes for turning on to base and final or a low-powered descent - regardless of the conditions.

 

I would not be at all surprised that the crash earlier in the week was also a result of carby ice.

 

 

[Geoff]

Had carb ice at warm up to day had to up throttle to hold 1200 so much that when the ice went 2000 rev came up was 5dg with 4.5dp 92 hm. any descent under 2000 rev gets carb heat.

 

 

[Deskpilot]

Our school used to teach that carby heat was only required when moisture was evident or in a long decent. This has recently been changed to always on downwind, base and until late finals when it must be turned off in case of a go round. I was not aware of this change until after the event.

 

As to last weeks incident, I won't speculate and neither should anybody else.

 

Just heard of the loss of 2 aviators on the Sunshine coast. May they find peace in their new environment. My prayers go out to their families and friends.

 

Doug

 

 

[Ultralights]

the only aircraft i have ever had issues with Carby icing has been the Jabiru! oh, and one time in a Piper Archer after climbing through a cloud layer.

 

 

[poteroo]

If you see any vapour formation off the propellor tips when taxying or doing a run-up....then the delta T, (difference between dry and wet bulb T), is likely to be <3 degrees. Under these conditions, you pick up carby ice even on taxy.

 

As a longstanding practice, I always do my engine run-ups last - so that I've had carby heat on the engine for at least 30 secs immediately prior to take-off. This way I'm fairly sure that I'll get full power.

 

During BFR's I usually ask pilots what they are looking for when applying carby heat.....and get the same answer most times, ie we look for a decrease in RPM ! Of course, if you have accumulated ice in your carby - the RPM should increase as the ice is melted by heat application.

 

I'm a long way from most of you, but this last week we've had really high humidities, and even my normally ice-free Supercub with a Lycoming 0-320 160HP engine, has been picking up ice in every flight phase. This has been right through the morning, and again by around 4pm.

 

For GA training in our C172's, we've changed out pre-landing checklist to have the carby heat applied before power reduction on late downwind - which gives a blast of heat before you descend. I think this is a sensible technique during winter. It probably applies to Jabirus and other RAAus types just as much.

 

happy days,

 

 

[Guest floatHigh]

Seeing as we are discussing carby icing, thought to mention that as a student pilot (40 hours), at our school at Aldinga, we are taught

 

to apply carby heat in the first part of pre-landing checks, and carb heat off at the end of the checks.

 

However, if the conditions are such that icing is possible, then the carby heat stays on until late final.

 

The reason carby heat is removed on the final approach is that you may require full power for a go-around, and at this point,

 

icing should not be likely.

 

(Lately due the wintry conditions, I have left the carby heat on until late-final.)

 

 

[Admin]

I was always taught to pull carby heat on when on base and leave on till landing. In the event of a go around it is usually a quick push in after full throttle and before flaps. I was also taught to always use carby heat when you pull the throttle back and revs go below 3,000.

 

 

[Guest floatHigh]

I was always taught to pull carby heat on when on base and leave on till landing. In the event of a go around it is usually a quick push in after full throttle and before flaps. I was also taught to always use carby heat when you pull the throttle back and revs go below 3,000.

Ian, just a quick thought on that point. On a go-around which could be a last-second decision, ..it's one more thing to remember and do?

 

 

[Admin]

Your right - it is another thing and in my case it has become just another automated thing I do as I have a few seconds after the throttle before I need to touch the flaps - my hand simply goes from the throttle to the carby heat to the flaps - everyone is taught differently and every aircraft is different.

 

 

[Guest floatHigh]

Hi Ian, the neat thing about learning is that each instructor has a slightly different slant on things,

 

and in the end you can choose what is best for you, and that is real neat! :)

 

 

[Guest Fred Bear]

Very true Ian. I leave it on until touchdown. In the event of a go-around and providing you have forgotten to push the carb heat off, the rev loss is minimal.

 

 

[Guest Teenie2]

Fit a carby temp gauge.

 

 

[Bigglesworth]

I was always taught to pull carby heat on when on base and leave on till landing. In the event of a go around it is usually a quick push in after full throttle and before flaps. I was also taught to always use carby heat when you pull the throttle back and revs go below 3,000.

I think it happened on my first GA solo. In a C150. At about 25hrs.

 

Carb heat on on base/final, then instructor said taxi to side of runway, he got out, I went back onto the runway, did pre-take off checks (which don't include carb heat, thats run-up). Took off with full carb heat, and it was climbing horrible, would have quickly hit a hill (even at flattish Moruya). I was sort of getting worried, checked I had the speed right for climb (as a student you always think it is pilot flying error), only while thoroughly checking every gauge, instrument and control did I come across the carb heat. She started climbing then, and I started thanking God.

 

I alway check it now before take off.