Sqwark ident

[Jabiru Phil]

Yes, thought of that at the time but felt compelled to take the offer.

 

The controller made the comment after I thanked him and before changing back to the ctaf

 

Point taken.

 

I believe that I have an aircraft that is suitable for cta.

 

Phil

 

 

[frank marriott]

Don't forget Tech Manual 4.2.4-6 (Including RAD 47)

 

 

[Camel]

Just saying, when then controller goes to lunch at some class D airports, then becomes a CTAF and it"s then ok to go through. So it is safe and legal when the controller is not there !

 

 

[motzartmerv]

True. However class D is not radar controlled, so sqwarking would also be irrelevant inside their airspace (when active).

 

 

[ben87r]

Some still have radar but use procedural separation.

 

 

[Ballpoint 246niner]

With the increasing availability of Mode S transponders, and the cost coming down we are starting to see this technology already replacing current Mode C transponders, even in RA. We have 2 aircraft fitted with Mode S devices and strongly believe in the benefits of high level ( squitter) SSR interrogation and future ADSB out capability for traffic separation. It is important to note though that Mode S requires the assignment by CASA of a unique 8 or 16 digit hexidecimal address code that identifies the unit making it compliant,and that while GA issued Cof A's will include this number,to allow programming by the instrument LAME; RA registration does not necessarily do the same. I have posed this question to both RA-Aus and CASA's registration division as to how they will streamline this process with RAD47 compliance with the increasing rollout of Mode S units in RA-Aus. Still awaiting a reply.

 

 

[jakej]

Ballpoint

 

Not quite correct CASA issue binary codes with all GA aircraft which you then covert to a Hexidecimal combination of numbers & letters, total of 6 !! RA aircraft have the Hexidecimal code issued on request.

 

FYI The Dynon & Trig mode S transponders are approx the same cost as a mode C unit & will ' future proof' the aircraft.

 

Interesting to note that all the transponders I've installed in the last 18 months, GA & RA, are mode S.

 

Jake J

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

Neil

 

When you get a response, let us know on here...I'll be interested in the answer.......

 

What mode S transponders are you using?

 

Andy

 

 

[jakej]

I

 

This statement will quickly become inaccurate if it hasn't already in that come Feb 2014 all new transponders being installed will need to be Mode S.

I'd check the facts before making a blanket statement like that

 

Jake J

 

 

[Ballpoint 246niner]

BallpointNot quite correct CASA issue binary codes with all GA aircraft which you then covert to a Hexidecimal combination of numbers & letters, total of 6 !! RA aircraft have the Hexidecimal code issued on request.

FYI The Dynon & Trig mode S transponders are approx the same cost as a mode C unit & will ' future proof' the aircraft.

 

Interesting to note that all the transponders I've installed in the last 18 months, GA & RA, are mode S.

 

Jake J

Thanks for this Jake, I requested this via email about 10 days ago- no reply yet..

Andy- we have Trig 21's in both our Savannah and Sling

 

 

[Mriya]

II'd check the facts before making a blanket statement like that

 

Jake J

This link sets out the Mode S / ADS-B compliance requirements for newly registered aircraft or transponder installations post 6 Feb 2014.

http://www.airservicesaustralia.com/projects/ads-b/other-mandates-2014-2017

 

 

[jakej]

OK,OK I'll bite & hopefully give some more informed detail to dispel some of the myths & misconceptions re Mode S & ADS- B. my input is only to help, not inflame so please don't take offence

 

Mode S is needed for ADS-B - can't have one without the other

 

The easier one first - ADS-B (out) - unless the plane is going IFR AND has a Navigator like Garmin 430W, GTN (ie TSO 146) etc , AND HAS a Mode S (with ES = Extended Squitter) Transponder, this requirement WILL NOT apply. End of story

 

Mode S Transponder - in the case of VFR only aircraft. This document says it all http://www.comlaw.gov.au/Details/F2012L01739/Download however Para 9 has more relevant detail.

 

Basically, as I read it (I will contact the 'man' at Airservices on Monday to clarify), this is the situation -

 

If you replace your existing Transponder, on or after 6th Feb next year, or your aircraft is first registered after that date you will ned a Mode S type BUT only if operating, for our purposes, in C or E airspace or above 10,000 ft in Class G. To simplify - if you go into C airspace eg SY or ML etc, then you will need Mode S. However if you go into Class D ie Bankstown, Parafield or Moorabbin etc then you DO NOT need Mode S.

 

to recap - forget about ADS-B for VFR aircraft, there is no requirement despite the input from some well meaning 'experts' on forums. Also ADS-B is totally different to Traffic aareness from products like Zaon, it picks up ome Transponder output from other aircraft only. From my experience I'd rather 'look out the window' as there are too many not bothering to turn on their transponders, mark one eyeball is safer IMO - like radio calls, how do you really know if the message is getting out - better to look as well IMO:cheers:.

 

Mode S Transponder - if you want one or have to install one as per above then please --

 

1. Do not connect a non TSO'd 145/146 Gps to it - it won't work and creates issues that you don't want to know about.

 

2. Buy the ES version to future proof the install, do not buy any other type

 

3. Get the Hex Code, in the case of RA Aus from the Registrar of Aircraft (CASA) or from the RA Aus office ( I think they organise this now but I could be wrong) the Hex code has to be entered into the Transponder menu for it to work.

 

4. The Transponder installation will have to be tested IAW AD/RAD/47 (this applies to ALL Transponders fitted) by a professional with the correct test equipment.

 

5. Do Not turn the power on or use the Mode S unit until it has been tested.

 

For those that are not aware there is a possible penalty by CASA of 100 points for aircraft that don't have the AD complied with, just saying as I'm figuring that some surveillance may be done after the new reg comes int effect.

 

If you are buying a new Mode S Transponder then a cost effective option for Dynon Skyview owners is the Dynon unit, made by Trig for approx $us1800 (even better value than a Mode C type) or the Trig TT21 panel mount at approx $us2200 however the Garmin GTX330 is approx $us3900, go figure.

 

Hopefully this is useful to you & if I find that I've written something incorrect I'll fix that mistake.

 

Jake J

 

 

[Mriya]

Hi Jake,

 

Your observations are correct, however seeing as the whole point of having a transponder is to unlock airspace, a mode c installation post 6th Feb 14 will not be eligible for the places you would most likely use it (like class e). Also to note is that my radio LAME even mentioned that the avionics workshop he uses even questions whether they will be allowed to legally repair existing installations. I would be surprised if any radio LAME's would certify any mode c txpr installs post feb 14. It appears to be designed as a mode s upgrade by attrition. When your mode c unit fails a rad47 chk you may be faced with little choice but to upgrade to mode s. For someone with a gtx327 or similar the chances are it will run for many years however this rule will probably flush out all the older units that use an internal cavity to set the frequency as they are prone to drifting off frequency over time. Given all this I still stand by my original statement which when amplified says all new aircraft and transponder installs post 6 Feb 2014 must be mode s.

 

 

[Mriya]

Jake, I should add that you have a bucket-load of good info regarding ADS-B & mode S + ES issues also. Well done in presenting this info accurately. I only question your assertion that mode c installs may still be a valid choice come Feb 14. Fortunately at this point there is no mandatory requirement to upgrade existing mode C installations for the average recreational VFR aircraft.

 

 

[jakej]

Hi Jake,Your observations are correct, however seeing as the whole point of having a transponder is to unlock airspace, a mode c installation post 6th Feb 14 will not be eligible for the places you would most likely use it (like class e). Also to note is that my radio LAME even mentioned that the avionics workshop he uses even questions whether they will be allowed to legally repair existing installations. I would be surprised if any radio LAME's would certify any mode c txpr installs post feb 14. It appears to be designed as a mode s upgrade by attrition. When your mode c unit fails a rad47 chk you may be faced with little choice but to upgrade to mode s. For someone with a gtx327 or similar the chances are it will run for many years however this rule will probably flush out all the older units that use an internal cavity to set the frequency as they are prone to drifting off frequency over time. Given all this I still stand by my original statement which when amplified says all new aircraft and transponder installs post 6 Feb 2014 must be mode s.

I take your point & it's good to have some discussion about this topic.

Note also that my post here is meant for most of our fellow RA licenced pilots with RA Registered aircraft - most pilots will be VFR anyway & will not be affected by the new rules IF they don't go into the designated airspaces as I've mentioned.

 

There have been new Tranponder testing requirements for a while now with the 'specs' for testing tightened up with avionics shops, by default, having to buy new equipment to meet the standards. Many mode C type transponders (fitted with cavity oscillators) ie early Garmin GTX 320, Narco, King etc may/will/have not passed the more rigorous tests which will result in replacement BUT the digital units eg Garmin GTX 327, Apollo SL70 etc (basically any made using surface mount technology) will most likely keep going for a few years yet so will be available at a cheap price on the used market for those owners mentioned in the para above. Just thought I'd add all this to spell it out for the benefit of others.

 

As stated previously I'll contact the right guy in CASA & Airservices, probably tomorrow, & advise the results - good to be 100% sure on this

 

 

[jakej]

Ok, phone call made, here are the definitive results --

 

ALL aircraft, VFR or IFR if registered (for the first time) on or after 6th Feb 2014 HAVE to have a MODE S Transponder fitted for ops in airspaces as mentioned in #37 above. Below E, the level varies so our 'limit' of 9500' is impacted in places, & in G (where most fly) below 10,000ft you DO NOT need a transponder fitted.

 

Also for VFR only & considering airspace as previous , your existing transponder can be used for a very long time providing it continues to pass the requirements of AD/RAD/47.

 

Hopefully this is clear enough, if not I'll post more if the need is there.

 

 

[Ballpoint 246niner]

NeilWhen you get a response, let us know on here...I'll be interested in the answer.......

 

What mode S transponders are you using?

 

Andy

All good Andy, a quick few emails and I now have a binary and HEX code for my Trig 21 Mode S xpdr today. My needs may be slightly different to most RA pilots as I tend to go into and through CTA with the priveldges afforded under my PPL. I held off buying a Mode C knowing the rollout of ADSB would trigger changes to a new Mode S environment eventually and we have had the previously posted time frame for a while now.

Just another point, I am a firm believer that transmitting a 1200 code (Mode C) in G airspace is not a bad thing as it can help ATC within coverage separate and advise other aircraft under flight plan of your prescence and with the increasing number of TCAS and other smaller personal CAS systems now in many aircraft, it's one more layer of alerted separation available to us as common users of uncontrolled airspace.

 

 

[frank marriott]

" I am a firm believer that transmitting a 1200 code (Mode C) in G airspace is not a bad thing as it can help ATC within coverage separate and advise other aircraft under flight plan of your presence"

 

--------------------------------------------------------

 

As above agree, but I would add listening on relevant area freq, and using correct area QNH. I have had centre pass opposing IFR traffic for information even though separated by hemispherical levels, (nice info) but they are relying on your transponder height - info can be misleading if you are not using correct area QNH i.e. 30ft / mb. Blind encoder using 1013 and then converted to area QNH.

 

There is also a tendency for 'some' VFR pilots to fly around happily on 126.7.

 

 

[Ballpoint 246niner]

" I am a firm believer that transmitting a 1200 code (Mode C) in G airspace is not a bad thing as it can help ATC within coverage separate and advise other aircraft under flight plan of your presence"--------------------------------------------------------

As above agree, but I would add listening on relevant area freq, and using correct area QNH. I have had centre pass opposing IFR traffic for information even though separated by hemispherical levels, (nice info) but they are relying on your transponder height - info can be misleading if you are not using correct area QNH i.e. 30ft / mb. Blind encoder using 1013 and then converted to area QNH.

 

There is also a tendency for 'some' VFR pilots to fly around happily on 126.7.

Absolutely Frank, this goes without saying, as is an ever vigilant visual scan and listening watch as you say....