St. Bruno, Montreal - 2 C152 training flights in mid-air.

[Garfly]

Air traffic controller gave four warnings before fatal midair collision in St-Bruno

 

Today: Two Cessna 152 collided mid-air near St-Hubert YHU Airport close to Montreal around 12:37pm today (16:37z)

 

2 planes collide in midair on Montreal's South Shore - AVCANADA

 

 

[poteroo]

Air traffic controller gave four warnings before fatal midair collision in St-BrunoToday: Two Cessna 152 collided mid-air near St-Hubert YHU Airport close to Montreal around 12:37pm today (16:37z)

 

2 planes collide in midair on Montreal's South Shore - AVCANADA

Tragic! Has me wondering whether the flying school has a policy of reducing volume on the COM or Intercom while they are out in the training area? Very easy to forget to increase the volume again before joining the home circuit. Another possibility is that the students inadvertently cutoff the audio by adjusting the intercom squelch too far. Mea culpa - I've done both the above, and while it was chastening, we were in a low traffic area and it all ended well.

 

 

[Garfly]

Yes, a real tragedy. The Chinese students are really up against it there, trying to get on top of two sets of aviation lingo, English and French (and, to them, possibly indistinguishable, at times) in a very busy environment while still learning to control the aircraft. Both of these guys were solo, low time students. Anyone in that situation could easily descend into cognitive meltdown.

 

It's hard enough for native speakers to learn to decode quick-fire, locally accented, avspeak. I don't know how the big schools handle it here in Oz, but it seems communication is, by far, the greatest challenge these students face. It's like the aviating part is simple by comparison. Imagine needing to learn aviation-Chinese in order to fly as a career.

 

Most of the local area controllers (and pilots) that I hear, try to slow down a bit and be patient with the foreign students but then this is Sleepy-Hollow compared to other parts. It's not easy. Students such as these will soon have to face JFK controllers in their careers. I wish them well. Better them than me.

 

Of course, there's nothing to say, yet, that this accident had anything to do with coms problems.

 

The fact that it was a mid-air in perfect visibility gives us all pause regarding the reliability of 'see and avoid'.

 

 

[boleropilot]

an incident in the circuit witnessed by me was scary, although I doubt both pilots would have continued as they were if they didn't hear my call

 

I was inbound in a Drifter and approaching the downwind leg - being lower and with the spectacular vision afforded by the Drifter, I immediately looked for the ultralight aircraft that had called 'downwind', seeing it about a third of the way along the downwind leg

 

I then heard another aircraft call 'turning downwind - not visual with aircraft on downwind leg' - I then looked across to base and saw a GA aircraft turn onto downwind - and he seemed a bit closer in than normal

 

the problem was exacerbated by the fact that the GA was higher than the ultralight, and as such the ultralight was probably not visible because it was below his windscreen - plus, his left wing was down during the turn onto downwind so that didn't help with his lookout either - the only chance he had to see the ultralight was on base, and he didn't see it - I guess he expected to see it as he went along downwind, but he may have caught up to it before he saw it...

 

add to that the fact that the GA aircraft was faster, so I could see that it was catching the ultralight fairly quickly

 

my radio call was 'GA aircraft callsign, the ultralight is at your 12 o'clock low' - the reaction was instantaneous - one went left, the other went right, both calling to announce they were departing the circuit

 

could have been nasty... I suspect that in the mid-air situation above, the aircraft behind did not have visual on the other aircraft because he was below his windscreen

 

the only other fly in the ointment was that neither pilot called when they both reacted instantly to depart the circuit - what if they both turned the same way?

 

anybody wanting to giggle about the strobe and landing light I just fitted to my Drifter, go right ahead - but nobody is going to miss ME in (or approaching) the circuit

 

BP

 

 

[BLA82]

anybody wanting to giggle about the strobe and landing light I just fitted to my Drifter, go right ahead - but nobody is going to miss ME in (or approaching) the circuit BP

I think anybody that laughs at that is more of a fool. Lights have no downside to them (except maybe power drain) and can only make things safer. It's the same for motorbikes, yes cars still hit them but it was worse back in the day when the headlights could be turned off.

I would fit wingtip lights as well if I could

 

 

[facthunter]

Light on when the sun is behind you can make the bike harder to see.. That's one downside with non cancellable lights. Also cranking the engine with lights on isn't that smart especially if the battery is marginal. Nev

 

 

[Yenn]

A lot of strobes I have seen on ultralights are useless in daylight. But they don't have any downside. the other day I flew with a GA pilot and the cloud base was about 2500', he insisted on flying at about 200' below the cloud and up above the base in open areas. I had pointed out to him before we took off that he hadn't turned on the transponder. No worries his attitude. I flew with him because he was showing a bit of lack of flight time, but he didn't want to take in my comments, not only about the transponder, but also I commented it would be better to taxi on the taxiway, rather than half the length of the main strip.

 

Not much chance of a mishap on the strip, unless someone came in downwind, but plenty of risk of an RPT popping out of the cloud very close.

 

Can't say he was ignoring me because I was only an RAAus pilot, because he knows I fly GA.

 

 

[planedriver]

Good job someone has a few brains, but difficult sometimes to transfer knowledge.

 

Glad you made it back OK.

 

 

[boleropilot]

I think anybody that laughs at that is more of a fool. Lights have no downside to them (except maybe power drain) and can only make things safer. It's the same for motorbikes, yes cars still hit them but it was worse back in the day when the headlights could be turned off.I would fit wingtip lights as well if I could

g'day BLA82 - both lights were chosen for minimal power drain, the landing light is LEDs and draws almost nothing - I bought a smaller one for our big zero turn mower (The Boss likes to mow the footpaths) and you can see it in daylight a hell of a long way away - I was silly enough to look in the direction of one mounted to a ute in a workshop and ended up (with eyes closed) seeing six white dots for a long time...the one I'm using for the Drifter is 8 LEDs

 

I will always still approach the circuit with Mk.1 eyeballs on stalks and listening out on the local frequency - my instructor taught me to look long and hard to the right while on base leg for aircraft, particularly those with pilots who think that straight in approaches are OK - I will never do a straight in approach unless it is an emergency - minimum three legs, isn't that the rule?

 

and Yenn, your flight with the GA pilot was not nice - problem is, sometimes you put yourself in harms way without realising you've done it - no doubt you won't be flying with him again...

 

BP