China is sorting out their supply chain

[danny_galaga]

I didn't realise China is not totally self sufficient when it comes to aircraft technology until the kerfuffle with engine supply for their new C919 airliner. The engines are American 😲

 

Anyway, line them or loath them, China are exceptionally good at sorting out issues once the problem is identified. From complete engines, to hydraulic oil, they are sorting things out. As well they should, a country that size. Even ruzzia is more self reliant. It's embarrassing!

 

https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-economy/article/3320682/nose-tail-how-china-reshaping-aviation-supply-chain#amp_tf=From %1%24s&aoh=17543896531858&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.scmp.com%2Feconomy%2Fchina-economy%2Farticle%2F3320682%2Fnose-tail-how-china-reshaping-aviation-supply-chain

[onetrack]

The Chinese news media is not exactly the most independent news source about all new Chinese developments.

The Chinese may be making strides in their technological prowess, but the Americans and Europeans have 80 years head start on them.

 

The problem is that the language of technology, engineering, construction, mathematics, and even computerisation, is English. And in the translation from English to Chinese and vice versa, things get scrambled.

Would you like to see your Chinese jet engine manual produced in Chinglish? Even the Chinese construction equipment still has major flaws in many areas, despite much of it being "borrowed" directly from Western, European and Japanese sources.

 

P&W, Safran, GE, RR, and all the other major engine producers have spent decades honing their products, their skills, their reputation, and their brand names, so they can immediately be recognised for their class-leading products.

The Chinese still have a way to go, to produce the same level of integration as Western and European manufacturers, in all these fields, so they can fnally produce a product recognised for its consistent and outstanding quality and backup.

[facthunter]

You can't rest on your Laurels. The BIG RR motor nearly sent Britain Broke before it was sorted. Nev

[danny_galaga]

5 hours ago, onetrack said:

The Chinese news media is not exactly the most independent news source about all new Chinese developments.

The Chinese may be making strides in their technological prowess, but the Americans and Europeans have 80 years head start on them.

 

The problem is that the language of technology, engineering, construction, mathematics, and even computerisation, is English. And in the translation from English to Chinese and vice versa, things get scrambled.

Would you like to see your Chinese jet engine manual produced in Chinglish? Even the Chinese construction equipment still has major flaws in many areas, despite much of it being "borrowed" directly from Western, European and Japanese sources.

 

P&W, Safran, GE, RR, and all the other major engine producers have spent decades honing their products, their skills, their reputation, and their brand names, so they can immediately be recognised for their class-leading products.

The Chinese still have a way to go, to produce the same level of integration as Western and European manufacturers, in all these fields, so they can fnally produce a product recognised for its consistent and outstanding quality and backup.

Nonetheless, they are striding forward. Did you notice that China will become only the third country to be able to make a certain hydraulic fluid for instance? I'm assuming the other two are USA and USSR err russia.Technology isn't just the domain of English speakers you know 😉. Incidentally, they don't speak english in Russia either...

 

People have this quaint idea about 'the Chinese' similar to how people viewed Japan until the 80s 

"Oh, they're best suited to copying things" "oh they're good at making little electronic gadgets because of their small hands" etc etc.

 

They've made huge strides in electronics. It is surprising they didn't sort aviation out first.

 

Have a look at these stats for patent listings (quite a lot are for electronics incidentally). Tell me what you see at the top of most of the lists? Not bad for little Asians who are good at copying things...

 

https://www.wipo.int/en/ipfactsandfigures/patents

[facthunter]

People who visit Chinese Factories are simply "in AWE" of what they see. Us Infrastructure is out dated and in dis repair. Lack of Investment and research. Port Facilities and road and rail. USA still make SOME good stuff but Gov't Interference  and chaos won't be the solution.  "Hewson We have a Problem". The Bloke at the Helm has a screw loose.  He's not POTUS Material. and thinks He Da KING.  Nev

[Methusala]

Read the other day that Russia are now producing the *Superjet* airliner with domestically produced engines. Must be reasonably confident to do that.

[facthunter]

Not likely they would get UK Or US engines supplied on  an assured basis..   Nev

[onetrack]

If the Tupolev record is anything to go by, I'll give flying in the Superjet a miss, thanks. I can recall Belarus tractors introduction to Australia. Built by slave labour, by criminal prisoners, and by imprisoned South Vietnamese "recalcitrants" who fought against Communism, sent to Russia by North Vietnam as "appreciation" for Russia's assistance in the Vietnam War.

Don't forget, in places such as Russia and China, you go to jail for expressing anti-Govt sentiment - for long periods of time, until you're no longer able or willing, to express anti-Govt sentiment.

 

Belarus was part of the Soviet Union until 1991. You needed two Belarus tractors to get one working, that might provide 50% of the reliability of a Western-built tractor.

 

Don't forget China is a Communist society to its core, and the CCP runs everything. If you thought Trump interfered into too much Govt decision-making at present, try the Chinese Govt. Idealogy drives all important decision-making in China.

While the Corporate West has its failings, at least people in the West are free to make decisions, initiate programmes, even oppose Govt mandates.

The Western democratic world produces innovation, develops brand names that guarantee a certain quality of product, and installs standards and specification that must be met, and that must continue to be met, under threat of financial penalty.

 

If you buy a Chinese product, it could be produced in a dozen different factories, all with different names and differing attention to detail and standards. "China quality fade" is recognised everywhere, and China can't get away from that.

Chinas "quality fade" is driven by bribery, fast-profit chasing, and a failure to insist on total adherence to international standards and specifications, and constant checks to ensure that adherence is being carried out scrupulously. 

 

Even China's much-vaunted massive railways development was plagued by crashes caused by fraud, bribery and corruption, and design faults - to the extent that the Ministry of Railways was dissolved, and a sizeable number of officials jailed  for fraud and corruption.

The Wenzhou high-speed train crash in 2011, which killed 40 people, revealed major design and quality flaws in the Chinese rail network, that ranged from faulty signalling equipment, structural weaknesses in multiple important train components, and failures in railway subgrade construction design and maintenance.

 

The simple problem remains that China exports all its manufacturing and design problems, and then convinces the other countries, there are no problems with it. When you try to get the problems addressed, you run into the brick wall that is CCP officials, and a legal system that is nothing like the Western legal system. Don't even get me started on the Chinese banking system, half of which is even hidden from the Chinese themselves. "Misallocation of investment" is a CCP art form.

 

Edited August 7 by onetrack

[facthunter]

Trumps America is looking even worse than China as an example of how to get things done. China doesn't have a God-KING like TRUMP wants to be.  The Chinese Leader is only there till He isn't. He has to deliver the Goods or HE Goes. The Party will see to that .

  Trump is about   making  it IMPOSSIBLE to get rid of HIM by stacking the deck and by retribution on any thing OR  PERSON that can/ might oppose what HE WANTS. He orders records to be altered or Disappear that Might affect him. . USA is now in Deep $#!t. It cannot be TRUSTED anymore. Nev

[onetrack]

I don't know about that, Nev. I think Trump is jealous of, and looking to emulate Xi Jingping. Xi made himself Supreme Leader for all time, and eliminated any possibility of a competitor to him. I think Trump only dreams of being able to do that.

 

China's Xi allowed to remain 'president for life' as term limits removed

WWW.BBC.COM

---

China's Xi Jinping could stay in power indefinitely after parliament backs constitutional changes.

 

Edited August 7 by onetrack

[facthunter]

Removing the Limit Number of terms you can serve doesn't mean   the BBC  VIEW on interpreting IS the only possible outcome. PUT in had a seat warmer ( Medvedev the Crazy) do the Job for him and his possible Opponents seem to disappear one way or another. China is not that obvious. .1.4 thousand Million People have to be reasonably Happy with their lot and XI Knows it. HE doesn't strut around pretending to Be GOD either and knows the Importance of economics.  Something Trump will never know the Basics Of. "You're Fired" is what happens when he gets told the Truth. Where does THAT END?  Nev

[Methusala]

US(rael) needed Russian transport for astro(cosmo)nuts to the ISS till Boeing* came up with the Starship... err something happened Houston (Seattle).

BTW Is Trump any further from dementia than sleepy Joe?

Edited August 7 by Methusala

[facthunter]

Joe had a brain and knowledge to lapse in his MOMENTS. Trumps KNOWLEDGE is of the Lacking variety. He has Nothing to lose.  Nev

[danny_galaga]

On 07/08/2025 at 7:39 AM, Methusala said:

Read the other day that Russia are now producing the *Superjet* airliner with domestically produced engines. Must be reasonably confident to do that.

I mean, they've been making jet engines since the 40's, like most other producers. This is what surprises me about China. I guess their biggest problem is they were set back at least 20 years or so, technologically because of mao. I'm still surprised though because since the 80's they've really been making up for lost time.

[facthunter]

The "Technology" has come a long way since the 40's. The top builders are easy to find. and even they have their occasional production delays. This is super hi tech stuff.  and always will be.  Nev

[danny_galaga]

Just to show what I'm getting at, and to show China isn't just 'little people who are good with their hands and copying small industrial things',

 

their first atomic weapon tests were in 1964. Their first rocket into space was in 1970. This is especially important because you have to be pretty first rate with your metallurgy. For instance, large liquid fuel rockets have a power take off in the form of a turbo. You aren't just going down to the wreckers and pulling one of those off an RX7.

 

And then theres this. First tests of their lunar lander. 

 

 

 

[onetrack]

And all done via industrial espionage, patent infringements galore, and simple technical information handover via blackmail, something the Chinese are exceptionally good at. Remember, the Chinese insist you cannot start up any division of your Western business in China, unless you hand over all your companys technical secrets, and make the CCP a 51% JV partner in the business. Something that dismayed many Western companies who decided to set up in China.

[danny_galaga]

2 hours ago, onetrack said:

And all done via industrial espionage, patent infringements galore, and simple technical information handover via blackmail, something the Chinese are exceptionally good at. Remember, the Chinese insist you cannot start up any division of your Western business in China, unless you hand over all your companys technical secrets, and make the CCP a 51% JV partner in the business. Something that dismayed many Western companies who decided to set up in China.

🤷‍♂️

[onetrack]

The website below outlines the pitfalls of doing business with the Chinese. A lot of Western companies have been burnt badly in their forays into China, and Chinese interests always come off best. Kind of like Trumps America at present, he loves the Chinese model.

 

https://adepteconomics.com.au/the-china-business-conundrum-challenges-for-western-companies-in-chinese-markets/

 

[danny_galaga]

On 09/08/2025 at 9:22 PM, onetrack said:

The website below outlines the pitfalls of doing business with the Chinese. A lot of Western companies have been burnt badly in their forays into China, and Chinese interests always come off best. Kind of like Trumps America at present, he loves the Chinese model.

 

https://adepteconomics.com.au/the-china-business-conundrum-challenges-for-western-companies-in-chinese-markets/

 

It's not going to matter in ten years. They will be the innovators, and it'll be THEIR turn to outsource their manufacturing to countries with cheaper labour, etc. politically they are far from my favourite country, but when it comes to innovation, despite all the prevailing stereotypes, they are moving in leaps and bounds. 

[facthunter]

With Most things done by Robotics why does Cheap Labour matter so much with Manufacturing anymore.?  Nev

[Methusala]

Thing about China is that they have a huge population and (should I follow Nev  and say AND) a working education program that turns out literally millions of qualified STEM grads. China already dwarfs all other economies and we would do well to dump the Albanese's, Wrongs and Smarles. Because they are romancing the belief that the US is any kind of partner. Dump AUKUS, and the ridiculous QUADS as has India already.

[facthunter]

Labor didn't get AUSTRALIA saddled with Aukus and they KNOW how reliable TRUMP ISN'T. There's a Best time and Place for everything and you don't run your plans on TV. US can't even produce their  own requirements. It's been Hijacked from within and in danger of  being a Lawless FAILED STATE, full of Corruption.  Nev

[Moneybox]

4 hours ago, facthunter said:

With Most things done by Robotics why does Cheap Labour matter so much with Manufacturing anymore.?  Nev

 

Cheap labour might not matter too much but you need a demand for high volume production. That's the main problem with producing anything in Australia, without an established export market there are not enough consumers of most items to make manufacturing viable.

[skippydiesel]

1 hour ago, Moneybox said:

 

"Cheap labour might not matter too much but you need a demand for high volume production. That's the main problem with producing anything in Australia, without an established export market there are not enough consumers of most items to make manufacturing viable.

Excuses! Excuses!

 

Doesn't seem to worry a whole range of small (population) countries that are exporting to the World.

 

Australia has never got over being fed through the umbilicus of a larger power - First the British now The Yanks. Even the Kiwis seem to have a more positive attitude, making the most of their limited resources.

 

Our one and only talent seems to be to shoot ourselves in the industrial foot.

 

Our investment in the future wellbeing (education/health/R&D) of the nation is pitiful. You can thanks the the Coalition for most of the failure but then Labour fails to make meaningful corrections. "A pox on both their houses"

😈