newairly Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 I heard on the news yesterday that the NSW Government is to mandate the use of ethanol in all petrol at 10% bt 2011. What will be the option for most ultralight engines where ethanol blends are a no-no. I do not operate from an airport and have no access to aviation fuel. I understand that ethanol blends are also unsuitable for many outboard motors and many small engines.thumb_down Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 Ethanol in fuel. So, don't vote for them. It only encourages them. It is a genuine safety issue, but do you think anyone cares?. Fibreglass tanks, how do they behave, with ethanol mix? Nev... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyhog Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 The story is that premium unleaded will still be available without ethanol.It will still cost us more though.Nev has the right idea,don't vote for them(I don't know who keeps voting them in anyway). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigPete Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 Jabiru advertising now states that their engines and fuel tanks can now tolerate up to 10% ethanol in the fuel. regards :big_grin::big_grin: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 But not mine or yours Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigPete Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 I guess you could be the lucky one here Geoff, :thumb_up: as you have a tank behind the seat - easy to upgrade to the new tank that can use 10% ethanol, while I'm stuck with fuel tank wings. thumb_down regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 Yes that is so don't use much mogas anyway but we have to use premium unleaded any way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 Ethanol mandate. Think it applies to ALL petrol... nev. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ozzie Posted December 13, 2008 Share Posted December 13, 2008 Unfortunatly the current NSW State Labour Govt that is currently in power would without a doubt be the most useless inept political party that this country has seen since the introduction of Federation. The control of what goes into our fuel must be made at a federal level and be carried over into the supply to ALL states. The danger having different fuel from state to state should be obvious. They come up with these little schemes to divert the attention of the press and voters away from more important issues that continue to damage the NSW Labour Party. I think you will also find there is a bit of "deal for mates" when it comes to ethanol makers in NSW as well. Thanks to Bob Carr. Pass a law mandating adding ethanol to fuel and someone makes a big buck. Ozzie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyhog Posted December 13, 2008 Share Posted December 13, 2008 Think it applies to ALL petrol... nev. I heard the relevent minister being interviewed on a radio program and he said only regular unleaded would disappear and be replaced by E10.He then said that you would still be able to buy ethanol free petrol in the form of premium unleaded.He compared it to when they stopped producing standard leaded petrol leaving only super.I suppose just because he said these things doesn't mean it's true,after all he is still a politician. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted December 13, 2008 Share Posted December 13, 2008 Important. I would consider this to be a pretty important point that needs to be clarified, and it wouldn't be acceptable if the minister would not do that. We are now entering the "silly" season of course. Contact the office of the minister and ask for a definative statement. The Americans had a similar problem about a year ago and I am not sure how it ended up. As ethanol has a very high octane rating, there is no reason along those lines not to put it in "premium" type fuels. Just that it can damage some fuel system components by its solvent action, and since it holds water, can be a problem that way too. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newairly Posted December 13, 2008 Author Share Posted December 13, 2008 I have written to my local member conveying my concerns about availability of suitable fuel and asked him to clarify the situation with the Minister. I said that this is a serious safety matter because of the possibility of inadvertant use of ethanol blends if it is not controlled. I suggest others do the same. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-man Posted December 13, 2008 Share Posted December 13, 2008 Today's Age motor section has an article titled 'False Economy'. The pollies are sprouting that this is a win for the little Aussie battler, cheaper fuel. The Age team compared Reg ULP, Premium ULP and E10 (Reg ULP with 10% Ethanol). The drop in performance of E10 meant that to cover a given distance the cost of fuel was almost the same for Premium and E10, both about 5% more expensive than reg ULP. The positive for us is that we use Premium ULP and most of that will still be Ethanol free. The companies will have to supply 20% of their fuel with ethanol and 80% will stay as is. My reading is that most of the Ethanol will be in the lower octane fuel. i_dunno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEON Posted December 13, 2008 Share Posted December 13, 2008 Not just a problem for us. Would think it is bigger for the boaties...just what you need in a boat!...a fuel that absorbs water! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyhog Posted December 13, 2008 Share Posted December 13, 2008 At least if your boat engine stops your boat won't always sink.If your aircraft engine stops,your aircraft will certainly start to sink! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted December 13, 2008 Share Posted December 13, 2008 Have sent an email to Mark Dreyfus, federal member for Isaacs to make sure the Federal Gov is aware of the consequences of this State action. I raced on Methanol for several years, and drained the carbies immediately after every race meeting unless I forgot. When I forgot (don't laugh) the engine usually shut down during the warm up or during the first race as a result of fuel flow being starved by the white corrosive powder in the carb float bowl etc which had built up in the previous two weeks. (a) I'll bet aircraft carbies aren't as easy to drain (b) You could pick up a load of ethanol laden fuel in one country town unawares, fly several hours home, park the plane for three weeks, then suffer an engine failure on take off from the fuel blockage. This matter needs some smart footwork! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigPete Posted December 13, 2008 Share Posted December 13, 2008 Is there an easy way to check fuel for Ethanol content? - like a simple litmus paper test or similar? regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted December 13, 2008 Share Posted December 13, 2008 Wonder if it has a colour code? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEON Posted December 13, 2008 Share Posted December 13, 2008 Method of testing would be to put a measured amount of water in a container (baby bottle?) and then add petrol. Shake. If "water" level is higher the petrol containes ethernol as ethernol and water mix, not actual petrol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ozzie Posted December 13, 2008 Share Posted December 13, 2008 easy test for ethanol get a jar. put a mark about an inch off the bottom. add water to the mark. add a few inches of fuel to be tested on top of the water. give it a shake to mix the fuel and water. let it settle. if the water has risen above the line then the fuel has ethanol in it and has mixed with the water. if you do it in the right proportions you can work out the percentage of ethanol in the fuel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEON Posted December 14, 2008 Share Posted December 14, 2008 My post yesterday regarding the bigger problem of ethernol for boaties was not intended to mean their resulting engine problems were bigger although I, and I would think others, have been in boats where the result of an engine failure could result in as serious an outcome as in an aircraft with often more than two peoples lives at risk. I was trying to indercate their problem was bigger because there a hell of a lot more of them than us! In otherwords, when making representations tie as big a sample as possible of the population into it. If only aircraft owners, who will give a bugger as they ALL know we are a rich and unrepresentative SMALL group of people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted December 14, 2008 Share Posted December 14, 2008 Take the case of person A fuelling the club aircraft enroute, but not testing the fuel, then on arrival just parking the aircraft. Person B comes along a few days later, takes out the fuel sampler to check for water in the fuel, puts it back, take out his baby bottle and puts water in it, then finds the fuel contains ethanol. By then it's too late; if the carb is of aluminium construction there will be some white corrosion contamination. So then he gets out the spanners, pulls the carb off, scrapes out the powder puts the carb back on, pockets the three washers left over, and goes on his way?...... Couldn't find a colour for this fuel - seems it is the colour of the base pettrol. Some people say they can smell it, but given the potential to block the fuel jets fairly soon after engine startup this subject needs some more research. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Llew Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 Ethanol I run an old Ford XF, have been using E10 of and on for several years. I had no trouble, even though the car is run mainly on LPG. My information indicates that ethanol, cleans the carb. I have several of these Fords, I don't like paying for new cars. :-). Most of my machines on the farm, have XF engines. No damaging efects, form using ethanol. I don't use ethanol frquently. I have read reports from Brazil, they use 100% ethanol. Without problems, most petrol powered engines will run ok with water in the fuel if it is absorbed. IE by adding meths. But I don't think I will put E10 in my plane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 I think the main problems occur with aluminium components. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreebirdAvn Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Introduction of ethanol Hello out there, enjoyment of flying is being threatened by our governments in the form of mandating the use of Ethanol being added to our fuels. I am working with the RA Aus, EAA, SAAA and RAANZ in collecting information to advise (lobby) our politicians of the problems they are going to cause to flyers & boaters. If you come across any relevant articles or information please forward them on to me. Qld & NSW are the leading states with NSW having established a department to oversee Ethanol's introduction. Thanks John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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