skeptic36 Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 Hi all, I'm about to start work setting out an airstrip at home, I read here of people with a home strip inviting others to drop in any time, something I would like to happen at my place. My concern is what if someone has an accident on your private strip ? What if someone you haven't invited identifies it as an airstrip and needs to land for a toilet stop and has an accident ? If they think it is O.K to land but the strip turns out to be too short for their aircraft is that my problem ? Given that if a burglar enters my property to steal my Plasma T.V and cuts his/her arm off on the broken glass that wasn't broken till he/she broke it apparently I'm liable even though I don't have a plasma ;), then I think I'm gonna have some problems . Do people have insurance for this ? Does your normal public liability insurance cover this ? If you can get cover is it expensive ? Regards Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracktop Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 Recently insured farm and the insurer said if I had a strip (don't yet) then they weren't interested in insuring and it would void my insurance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winsor68 Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 Insurance...Criminals the lot of them! Read the latter part of this story about insurance... Lancair/Cirrus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLA82 Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 Interesting read Windsor, The guy shows how much money he has saved by not having insurance for 5 years and only having a 15k repair bill. All good but if mr murphy had struck (the bugger loves me) in the first year he would have been 5k poorer and if the sirrus was a writeoff I'm guessing 100's of thousands poorer. I also believe that insurance effects the third parties aswell. If his Cirrus just happened to take out someone elses lear jet on the taxiway the bugger would just claim bankrupt and pay nothing Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winsor68 Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 True enough Bla...the story is probably not relevant when talking about insuring your airfield as the claim would come from an outside party...I found that what he talked about was to me more relevant in the terms of insurance generally and how much of a dirty business it can be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLA82 Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 insurance generally and how much of a dirty business it can be. To true!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest brentc Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 You are probably approaching this from the wrong end of the stick. You would set up your strip and publish it in AOPA or similar on web but make it abundantly clear that Prior Permission is Required (PPR). When intending users call you for permission, you ensure that they fill out the appropriate disclaimer that also confirms that they are also appropriately insured. They would then fax the permission form to you for approval. I know of half a dozen strips with this set-up, such as Wineries and other privately owned strips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mc Guyver Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 You are probably approaching this from the wrong end of the stick. You would set up your strip and publish it in AOPA or similar on web but make it abundantly clear that Prior Permission is Required (PPR). When intending users call you for permission, you ensure that they fill out the appropriate disclaimer that also confirms that they are also appropriately insured. They would then fax the permission form to you for approval.I know of half a dozen strips with this set-up, such as Wineries and other privately owned strips. What about a permanent white X at either end of the runway. Your expected guests would then know about it and any one else landing would be doing so at their own risk at an un serviceable airfield? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yenn Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 brentc has the right idea, but don't forget that RAAus pilots in RAAus planes have third party insurance, so they should not need to sue you for their own accident. I am not sure about GA planes but I was under the impression that they had to have third party insurance, but I could well be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest brentc Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 No insurance required for GA (must be because they are so much more reliable and safer :-) but remember that RA-Aus aircraft hulls aren't covered by default, so you could get sued if someone propstrikes your hole in the ground (in theory). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ozzie Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 don't forget if the strip is near a boundary fence and you spook the neighbours nag and it bolts and hurts itself you can bet it turns into a prized racehorse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeptic36 Posted June 9, 2009 Author Share Posted June 9, 2009 Thanks Guys, I think Brentc has the right idea Dexter, I agree with you in that I'm not prepared to bet my lifes work on whether somebody or somebodies family will or wont take a lawyers advice where money is involved. Yenn, I think the third party thing would be if their property/actions caused damage to my property not the reverse. Mc Guyver, I hate it when I'm driving down the road and there is a forty kmh sign with a prepare to stop that lasts about three kilometers and you look around to see what it was about and there is a surveyor over in the scrub somewhere 20 meters off the road, then they wonder why traffic doesn't take notice of their signs. The same would apply if people start putting out meaningless white crosses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burlc Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 Well how do all the council,CALM,Station strips get away with it. White crosses, hmm, what if you damage your aeroplane at your own strip, your in hospital, the assesor see's white crosses that would = no payout I would imagine. Probably not a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest basscheffers Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 I also believe that insurance effects the third parties aswell. If his Cirrus just happened to take out someone elses lear jet on the taxiway the bugger would just claim bankrupt and pay nothing He put in capitals he didn't have hull insurance, I would assume he does have 3rd party. 3rd party is a fraction of the cost of hull insurance. (as parking your Lancair in someone else's Lear is, well, even less likely than writing off your aircraft.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mc Guyver Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 Well how do all the council,CALM,Station strips get away with it.White crosses, hmm, what if you damage your aeroplane at your own strip, your in hospital, the assesor see's white crosses that would = no payout I would imagine. Probably not a good idea. Good point, I hadn't looked at it on that basis! That would be the loop hole they needed and found without a problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jordy Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 sceptic, Don't be put off by all the horror stories. Talk to your insurer, especially if you have all your property and belongings with one insurer. I have my strip insured for an amazingly cheap rate provide I do not return an income from it (plane hire, landing fees etc) A white cross is not valid (i don't think) if the strip is in good working order and insist in all information on the strip that permission must be granted before landing. Remember that you have to proved negligent before being found liable. If you require more detail feel free to PM me. :thumb_up: Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farri Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 RA/Aus. third party insurance only covers persons or property that the aircraft causes damage to ,not the AC, pilot or passenger. In my opinion,because prior permission to land is required, anyone landing on a private strip without permission should be liable,however, because Duty Of Care is not defined it leaves a great question mark over the responsibility of the land owner to fullfill all safety obligations and therefore the strip owner may still be liable and if permission is given,then it would become even more contentious. Frank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeptic36 Posted July 10, 2009 Author Share Posted July 10, 2009 For those interested, On the 15th of June I sent this e-mail to CASA and the HGFA: Dear Sir/Madame, I am not sure who to address this enquiry to but hope you can help. I am a HGFA member and trike pilot. I live on a farm where I am about to start building a hangar and leveling an airstrip, where I would be keen to have other aviators land, socially or otherwise, but not for profit. I am looking for advice on requirements regarding insurance. Does advertising it as a private strip - with filling out a special form a requirement - protect me from legal liability if a visiting pilot has an accident on my strip? Is there a standard form available for this purpose? Where would I need to advertise the requirements for someone landing here so it becomes a protection against litigation? On the 18th of June I received this response from CASA : Bill, I'm afraid CASA can not provide you with much information except to advise you to contact the HGFA, an insurance company, and a legal practitioner. CASA has no standard forms of the type you suggest. Of course, you would have a general duty of care to fellow pilots if you established an aerodrome for their use. The type of facility you intend to build, is what CASA describes as an 'Aeroplane Landing Area, ALA'. We publish an advisory document for such facilities, located on our website at: http://casa.gov.au/wcmswr/_assets/main/download/caaps/ops/92_1.pdf thankyou for your email. I'm still waiting for a reply from the HGFA.. I know there is somebody there because my membership fees are readily accepted and I keep getting the magazine every month. Do they do anything else ? Regards Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunlopdangler Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 As long as the strip length, width, approach and splay angles comply with A.L.A dimensions and your aircrafts performance and you have the land owners permission (either expressive or implied) then you should be covered by your insurance (unless you have limitations to the contrary) Best idea is to check with your insurance company, In stating that however, Bill has already been given that advice from CASA, notice they have not given an expressed opinion and the reason is simply that they do not want to be liable in the legal sense. The formulae that is set out in CAAP 92-1(1)-aerodromes (see CASA site for download) would be the parimetres that I would reckon the legal fraternity would use as a benchmark in the case of an insurance claim:amazon: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Walter Buschor Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 How about saying " anyone with mechanical trouble is welcome to drop in for a lend of a spanner anytime " . This would make it an emergency and as such it shurely would never be an insurance issue. After all it was the " safest option at the time " safe flying the grey Nomad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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