Personal Chat Channel?

[markendee]

For those up on the finer points of air leg. and airmanship.

 

We have used a channel within our local flying community which is not the numbers. We found the numbers too busy so went to another frequency.

 

On two occasions we have been admonished by an instructor who also uses this frequency and indeed this morning he said "get off my chat channel" (8.00am Sunday)

 

Can someone have their own personal chat channel? If not I am tipping words need to be exchanged. If so I guess we will have to abide the rules.

 

Thanks for any knowledge on this.

 

Mark

 

 

[Guest jeepman]

Sure you can have your own chat channel but you must apply for it and pay the appropriate yearly fee. There is only one channel allocated to Sport Aviation, Australia wide and its 120.850 (found the info a few days ago on the casa site, will see if i can locate it again and post the link). The instructor will have a certificate if he has been allocated the use of the frequency otherwise its 'illegal' use will be 30 casa points (from memory)

 

 

[Thalass]

I was wondering about this. What do people do when they're flying in a big group on a tour or something? Airband isn't for chatter (Unless I suppose you pay for the rights to that frequency), I thought that maybe UHF CB would be good, as long as your proper calls are done on the appropriate aviation band.

 

UHF cb handhelds are fairly cheap and you can say what you want on there (just listen for a few minutes and that will be evident hah) without hassels from The Man. (or a grouchy instructor)

 

 

[Jabiru Phil]

I was wondering about this. What do people do when they're flying in a big group on a tour or something? Airband isn't for chatter (Unless I suppose you pay for the rights to that frequency), I thought that maybe UHF CB would be good, as long as your proper calls are done on the appropriate aviation band. UHF cb handhelds are fairly cheap and you can say what you want on there (just listen for a few minutes and that will be evident hah) without hassels from The Man. (or a grouchy instructor)

123.45 Seems to be the chat channel. I have tuned in when heard "Go to chat channel"

 

Phil.

 

 

[Deskpilot]

I agree with Phil, 123.45. That is what I was taught but have never used it...yet.

 

 

[skeptic36]

.123.45 is licenced for "chat" everywhere.

Question from HGFA PILOT TRAINING WORKBOOK :When is it permissible to conduct a private conversation on a VHF aircraft radio?

"Officially never (123.45 chat channel)" is the answer my instructor was happy with.

 

Regards Bill

 

 

[slartibartfast]

The VHF air band can never legally be used for chat.

 

Even 123.45 is limited to air-to-air by "aircraft engaged in flights over remote and oceanic areas out of range of VHF ground stations to exchange necessary operational information and to facilitate the resolution of operational problems". (AIP Gen 3.4 - 3.1.5)

 

To return to the original question, I can't find anywhere in AIP which suggests someone can have a personal frequency. All licensing is through ACMA. Even if you got a freq from them, it would be limited to operational broadcasts.

 

John Brandon lays it out well on the RAAus site:

 

An aircraft station may only be operated (i.e. transmitting) when it is on board an aircraft, thus you cannot operate your hand-held transceiver as an aircraft station unless you are in an aircraft and identify yourself with that aircraft's station call sign. If any condition of CL2006 is breached (for example, transmitting on a frequency not encompassed by the class licence) the operator is no longer authorised to operate under the class licence. In this instance, the operator would be liable for prosecution by the ACMA.

 

An aeronautical mobile station (and an aircraft station) may only be used for communications that relate to:

 

• the safe and expeditious conduct of a flight
   
   
  
• an emergency
   
   
  
• a matter that relates to the particular occupation or industry in which the aircraft to which the aircraft station relates is engaged; or the aeronautical mobile station is engaged.
   
   
  

 

 

Typically a flight instructor on the ground with a hand-held transceiver supervising a student in the circuit is operating as an aeronautical mobile station. The same might apply to a person advising traffic conditions at a fly-in. The operator of an aeronautical mobile station must use a form of identification that clearly identifies the mobile station.

 

Hope that clears it up. You can be prosecuted and have your radio operators license taken away for chatting, or using a frequency for which you are not licensed.

 

 

[djpacro]

The VHF air band can never legally be used for chat.Even 123.45 is limited to ..... "....necessary operational information...."

I used to get bored flying to Parkes at Easter and enjoyed hearing discussions about their girlfriends etc on their way to Narromine. Slarti, what will I do now if you've stopped that entertainment for me?

 

There is only one channel allocated to Sport Aviation, Australia wide and its 120.850

I wonder what the limitation on that allocation is? Recreational or Sport or? Is it limited to members of the Australian Sport Aviation Confederation? The aerobatic club, being a member of ASAC, uses that frequency for its aerobatic contests (refer the Contest Director's Manual).

[JG3]

One problem with UHF CB that you will find in the air, is that you are almost always on 'some one else's frequency'. To explain - UHF transmissions are line of sight, so on the ground very limited range, so regular users such as working crews find a quiet channel for their area and then consider it to be 'theirs', while other operators in that area find other quiet channels for their regular use, and so share them around. When we are at altitude we have very long range line of sight, and intrude into all those regulars down there who have become used to having a quiet channel to themselves. Brings lots of comments such as, "...go find another channel, you xxxx..." Sometimes it's hard to find a clear channel, and then it keeps changing as you move over different areas.......

 

 

[Guest jeepman]

Use the CTCSS, DCS or whatever its called and then you cant hear them only the other plane who has also set up their unit to match yours.

 

This from my manual

 

CTCSS (Continuous Tone Coded Squelch System) is a squelch quieting system that uses one of 50 preset subaudible (very low frequency) tones to open and close the squelch on your radio. The system applies a continuous low level tone to your transmission, and a matching tone decoder to your receiver’s squelch. When CTCSS is enabled, the channel remains quiet until someone transmits using the selected tone. When the transmission ends, the channel becomes quiet again. By using different tones, several groups of people can share the same channel without disturbing each other.

 

Your TX3220 allows CTCSS to be enabled or disabled on individual channels. In addition, the CTCSS tone frequency used is user programmable.

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

If you are using a handheld to direct traffic coming into your private strip or event on 123.45 and if it has a selectable power output switch it to the 1 watt setting.

 

 

[Thalass]

Use the CTCSS, DCS or whatever its called and then you cant hear them only the other plane who has also set up their unit to match yours.

This from my manual

 

CTCSS (Continuous Tone Coded Squelch System) is a squelch quieting system that uses one of 50 preset subaudible (very low frequency) tones to open and close the squelch on your radio. The system applies a continuous low level tone to your transmission, and a matching tone decoder to your receiver’s squelch. When CTCSS is enabled, the channel remains quiet until someone transmits using the selected tone. When the transmission ends, the channel becomes quiet again. By using different tones, several groups of people can share the same channel without disturbing each other.

 

Your TX3220 allows CTCSS to be enabled or disabled on individual channels. In addition, the CTCSS tone frequency used is user programmable.

Haha then all the ground-based yahoos can swear at you all you want. Though I wonder, how does CTCSS deal with two people talking over the top of one another. I know that on the airband when two people try to talk to the tower at once you get a squeal and the two voices mixed together. I suppose from that description CTCSS would let it all through, as it only controlls the squelch. So you might still get random interruptions on an otherwise quiet (to you) channel.

 

What you need to do is have everyone bring laptops, and one guy bring a wifi router, he can be a host using Teamspeak on his laptop and everyone else connect to that. Of course that might be a bit awkward, but you'd have it all to yourself.

 

 

[Tomo]

we need to communicate, but how?

That could just be the reason we have one mouth and two ears you know...? i_dunno

 

 

[peterholmes]

hi all

 

i would like to hear everyones opinion on my experience on saturday, 3 microlights left montpelier airfield at approx 6.40 am to fly to charters towers, we make all the std radio calls leaving the airfield and as we flew over donnington airspace one of us made a courtesy call that we were there and where we were headed, just after the overfly a cessna 172 called up from donnington ,he was taking off and also heading to chtrs twrs, i replied giving our position, after 10 minutes he flew under me with plenty of separation but i had another trike up ahead who was not sure of his track, a couple of radio calls and we were all able to continue knowing where everone was. along the way there is a grass strip at mingela which is a nice stop if its been mowed, our lead microlight dropped down to check this out, but the others, me and our no 3, lost them in the ground clutter, so we used our radio to identify where they were and safe separtion, after we decided not to persue this stopover we continued on to chtrs twrs, the cessna pilot called us and commented that we are "chatting " and should use 123.45, now my point being "how many radio calls is your life worth?"

 

i should add there were several other radio calls during that period but it was never "busy" and all calls were short and to the point, if there were other aircraft in the area they would understand what was going on, if we were doing that trip and used 123.45, anyone flying in the area using 126.7 wouldn't know we were there?? so what is too much?? and if we don't make those logical and sensible "position broadcasts" could a simple call avert a tragedy

 

 

[Thalass]

Being a GA pilot he may not have thought to consider your different flying style. He takes off, follows his route over standard beacons or other navigational markers, and lands at a 'proper' airport. So communicating so often with other aircraft is to his mind probably excessive. He possibly didn't realise you were in convoy.

 

Sounds to me like you did nothing wrong.

 

 

[Tracktop]

Hi Peter

 

Seems to me from your description that you were making calls that fit ( to quote Ross's quote)

 

"the safe and expeditious conduct of a flight"

 

and the Cessna pilot was making calls outside the allowed descriptions

 

 

 

[JayKay]

Hi Peter,

 

My approach when flying with others would be:

 

1. Use Area Frequency or CTAF if the information being broadcast is relevant/useful to other aircraft in the area.

 

2. Use Chat Channel if the information being broadcast is mainly relevant/useful to the group you are flying with.

 

Now suppose you lose sight of one of the aircraft because the aircraft is doing a precautionary search over a possible landing area. Is this information relevant to other aircraft monitoring the area frequency? Probably not, as the aircraft doing the ad-hoc low level flying is not going to impact others on the area frequency who are maintaining cruising altitudes etc.

 

My suggestion would be to make all radio calls relating to the flying group on the chat channel (eg. have you got me sighted? etc) whilst monitoring the area frequency. But when flying at altitude where other aircraft fly then make all position calls on the area frequency.