What do you reckon, What would you do & What would you say?

[wags]

I'll bet nobody flew circuits while tuned to Ground.

They did Slarti... they are both reasonably new pilots and were under the impression that 129.9 was to be used over and above the normal Temora CTAF frequency (126.15) and had been set up by RAAus just for that reason - to cope with the heavy traffic. They commented that they thought it was strange that no aircraft were making "base" calls etc.

 

Maybe they didn't read the briefing fully in the first place... don't really know.

 

What they didn't understand was that "Temora Ground" was there purely to help when taxying and should only be used when clear of any/all active runways. There again, they apparently didn't ask anyone to clarify the confusion they had before taking to the air. Both pilots said they operate from remote strips normally and don't use radio on a regular basis - no need???

 

Communication is the best safety procedure we have.

 

When they departed they had it right, but what might have occurred during the days of activity I don't want to consider... and purely because they didn't ask someone.

 

 

[Captain]

They did Slarti... they are both reasonably new pilots and were under the impression that 129.9 was to be used over and above the normal Temora CTAF frequency (126.15) and had been set up by RAAus just for that reason - to cope with the heavy traffic. They commented that they thought it was strange that no aircraft were making "base" calls etc.Maybe they didn't read the briefing fully in the first place... don't really know.

What they didn't understand was that "Temora Ground" was there purely to help when taxying and should only be used when clear of any/all active runways. There again, they apparently didn't ask anyone to clarify the confusion they had before taking to the air. Both pilots said they operate from remote strips normally and don't use radio on a regular basis - no need???

 

Communication is the best safety procedure we have.

 

When they departed they had it right, but what might have occurred during the days of activity I don't want to consider... and purely because they didn't ask someone.

Geeez wags.

 

If I were those mates of yours I would be staying Schtummmm about that.

 

I have just re-read the RA-Aus booklet on Natfly and it says: "Ensure you change to the Temora CTAF Frequency of 126.15MHZ before you get to 10NM so that you can monitor traffic before you make your 10NM inbound call etc etc."

 

There is then a para describing the operation of the Unicom which clearly states that the Unicom will be on the CTAF frequency.

 

And 3 or 4 paras later it says "Once on the ground and CLEAR of the runway, then please change to frequency 129.9MHZ and advise if you are etc etc."

 

The bold coloured font and the caps used above were those of the RA-Aus in their attempts to emphasise their point.

 

From memory, the terminology was identical or very similar everywhere else that this was mentioned in the lead-up to the Event.

 

The RA-Aus have done and said all that it needed to do on this .

 

Your mates need to consider doing a bit (or perhaps a lot) more preparation & flight planning before they go anywhere.

 

But on the other hand, and to back up one of Bill's posts, there has been an RPT come into a busy airport down here recently on the wrong frequency.

 

Regards Geoff

 

 

[Tomo]

The five P's come to mind....

 

Prior Planning Prevents Poor Performance.

 

Or my 4 P's

 

Please Prepare Prior to Performing.

 

 

[wags]

Not my mates Geoff!

 

Geoff, thankfully my mates that fly are far better educated than those two were!

 

They were simply two guys who were looking at our aircraft on display at Temora and started conversation. I have to say I was somewhat startled by their comments and overall attitude. It is not the first time I have come across the "it doesn't apply to us" attitude with some Sport Pilots. Unfortunately, and we in RAAus have to accept this and move to fix the problem; there are those in the ranks who either don't want to do the right thing and simply don't prepare themselves properly or keep their knowledge at the right level. How they get through a BFR escapes me, but maybe they haven't faced that as yet in their flying careers.

 

I have struck several newly certificated pilots over recent months that did not know about the existence of the VFG and although they said they have heard about ERSA they figured it was something for commercial operators only. I explained to them that it was akin to being a Christian without knowing of the existence of the Bible. Someone has been letting the side down badly.

 

For your benefit Tomo - I felt Temora was a huge success given it was the first time at a new venue with just a few small easily rectified hiccups being evident. The best thing about Temora is we have room to grow the Fly-in. My only real concern is... why is everyone hell bent on leaving on Sunday when we could enjoy the place for another day?

 

 

[Tomo]

why is everyone hell bent on leaving on Sunday when we could enjoy the place for another day?

My question exactly!!! They were getting out of there sunday morning like the place was going up in flames!

 

Did you go to the De-Briefing social sunday night in the hanger on Taxiway C? Was great fun!

 

 

[Bryon]

My question exactly!!! They were getting out of there sunday morning like the place was going up in flames! Did you go to the De-Briefing social sunday night in the hanger on Taxiway C? Was great fun!

Young Tomo, the last time I saw you on Saturday night you were trying to decide whether to go into town to the dinner or go to the movie in Hangar B. I dont think your mum was worried whatever you did, you just had to make up your mind...

 

PS, sorry I missed saying bye to you and your Mum on Sunday morning, but the weather was too good to delay our departure

 

 

[Tomo]

Young Tomo, the last time I saw you on Saturday night you were trying to decide whether to go into town to the dinner or go to the movie in Hangar B. I dont think your mum was worried whatever you did, you just had to make up your mind...PS, sorry I missed saying bye to you and your Mum on Sunday morning, but the weather was too good to delay our departure

I'll forgives you Bryon...

 

Well it was a pretty hard decision, though we had fun with everyone at the meal, so twas worth it. :thumb_up:

 

 

[winsor68]

They did Slarti... they are both reasonably new pilots and were under the impression that 129.9 was to be used over and above the normal Temora CTAF frequency (126.15) and had been set up by RAAus just for that reason - to cope with the heavy traffic. They commented that they thought it was strange that no aircraft were making "base" calls etc.Maybe they didn't read the briefing fully in the first place... don't really know.

What they didn't understand was that "Temora Ground" was there purely to help when taxying and should only be used when clear of any/all active runways. There again, they apparently didn't ask anyone to clarify the confusion they had before taking to the air. Both pilots said they operate from remote strips normally and don't use radio on a regular basis - no need???

 

Communication is the best safety procedure we have.

 

When they departed they had it right, but what might have occurred during the days of activity I don't want to consider... and purely because they didn't ask someone.

Wasn't the reason for having the morning briefing as mentioned and attended by Tomo for just these sort of pilots to get a better understanding of what was required? I wonder why they didn't attend?

 

 

[blueshed]

Hi To All

 

Thanks Geoff for bringing this to light!

 

It is not only to your frustration, however also to the frustration of Both of our RAA operations managers M & L. I was the Unicom operator at the time of this event!

 

As it was unfolding I was also in comm's with our opp's manager's who informed me they were onto the performance. As CASA was at this event and were duly informed of what had happened, they (CASA) I believe did not wish to act on it at all as they thought they were RAA aircraft and therefore would be delt with by the RAA. So basically CASA has so far had no response to the happenings, or so I believe.

 

From our spot up the "sissor lift" it was an extremely poor performance from the aircraft involved!

 

When I started to read this thread, without looking at your diagram, I new imediately the event with which you were refering.

 

From the Unicom point of view the majority of everyone who flew in while I was present, were to say the least "Very Good". The challenges come for us when for no reason someone decides to stop in the middle of a runnway or even at the intersection of TWO runways, Taking them out of action. Very frustrating for all in the circuit trying to land with a full complement in the circuit and more inbound. If you do manage to get on the ground PLEASE Expidite the active runway, "Get Outside the gable markers". Inside them and you are still on the active runway!

 

One poor sole was sent round twice concecutively (twice in a Row), Her performance was Exemperlary (Extremely Good). She maintained her cool at all stages and carried on AVIATING, NAVIGATING, and COMMUNICATING. Well done to the pilot of VH-BNP.

 

Enough from me cheers

 

 

[winsor68]

Casa does not wish to get involved... So is this forum the only "punishment" the perpetrators will receive? I mean we have basically given them a good serve which is actually I think a more effective punishment than imposing a monetary fine. But surely Ra-Aus has an incident reporting and following up system in order to make sure that the offender/s and the rest of us are in possession of an analysis of the mistakes and the suggested actions for what we all (but the pilots in question expecially) can do to make sure this sort on incident does not happen again?

 

Does Ra-Aus have an effective incident reporting system and if not why not? Being new I have not checked... if they do all of the members who witnessed it should put in reports.

 

 

[Captain]

Thanks Guy.

 

Wish I had known that it was you doing the Unicom and I would have come over to say g'day.

 

And also good to know it was you, if this all goes further, and that your view of the event was similar to mine.

 

I watched that lady in the 230 go around twice on the Friday. She did absolutely nothing wrong in each circuit, in fact I agree with you that her flying was top knotch if not faultless each time, yet she had to go around because of others. But it WAS busy at that time.

 

Regards Geoff

 

And winsor68.

 

The spacewalker's comment that nothing was said to him on the weekend surprised and disappointed me.

 

But the whole stunt has been reported, so let's wait and see what happens.

 

 

[Captain]

An Update

 

Thanks again to all that responded.

 

To close this off I thought I would advise an update.

 

After numerous emails and phonecalls I am advised that CASA will not take these issues any further and neither will RA Aus.

 

So after all of the constant RA-Aus hoo-hah about safety, human factors and other items ad nausium, it appears that there is "Safety" and then there is "Safety", ....... and it is indeed possible to to fly in the manner I described at Natfly with impunity.

 

It also appears to be possible to have the book thrown at you for much lesser transgressions.

 

I think this is a pathetic outcome by all those involved.

 

 

[Geoff]

I agree with you Geoff I was there and seen it to, its Disgusting

 

 

[Tomo]

To think they let something like this pass over, but jump on people without asic cards or whatever - obviously they just go the easiest route.