So this one or that one....??

[Guest disperse]

Well hi all, I've been fairly well spaced from the flying scene for a while.

 

But the time has come to dive head long in. As I usually do everything ass about, I'm going to buy a plane most likely before I get my ticket. Infact I'm sure of it. I'm also intending to do the training in my own craft. Biggest reason for this is. I KNOW WHAT CONDITION IT IS IN. And familiarity with it's ability.

 

For some time the decision on which plane has been solid. with Garry Morgans Sierra being the winner.

 

Long, High, Fast. From A to B to C and preferably back to A again. I want to use it for going place's. you know pop up to Darwin for a week. Birdsville race's. Sydney to Gladstone and back for the weekend (approx 1100nm ).

 

Also I don't need the pain in the bum of finding hanger space. So it's going in the trailer.

 

PROBLEM is that with the euro $$ the way it is. another plane has come into play

 

TL Ultralight Sting, I went through the price list and ticked ALL the box's. Then removed a few. So I ended up with a Sting 4 with, Retractable gear, 914 turbo, Skyview 10" x 2 glass cockpit, Brs, extra wing tanks, Constant speed prop. And yes it can go in a trailer. about now I was laughing to myself as to what I thought it would cost in Aussie $$$ ...............just under 135,000 + 5,000 port/freight + 14,000 gst.

 

total of 154,000. not bad for a carbon fiber beauty with all those EXTRA TOYS.

 

pro's: Fully certified and probably very easy to find customers for xhire.

 

: Burn less fuel or cruise 10 to 15+ knts faster

 

There is more but you get the picture...

 

Con's: I'm guessing about $25 to 30 grand

 

: Baggage space would be a lot less. which could be a prob on camping trips, but I'm a pretty good packer

 

: Fuel capacity, about 107 ltrs compared to 140+ for the Sierra

 

: Fly-ability ???? I do know that the sierra is a really good flyer (other peoples opinions as I lack the experience to really know)

 

I plan on doing alot of flying, basically put into very early retirement from the accident so plenty time all over my hands. Maybe over seas even.

 

POLL QUESTION IS: without regard to the purchase cost which one would you pick and why ?????

 

Regards Troy

 

 

[Guest disperse]

Thanks Cameron, I've been for a fly in the same plane. And there is very little that I don't like. But the sting is rather good too (Yet to fly)

 

 

[Tomo]

G'day mate

 

Well, believe it or not, but I've had the privilege of flying the Sierra, and sitting in a Sting!

 

I tell you what, all the TL Ultralights are pretty likable, I've got a soft spot for the Sirius - having sat in and checked it out as well, it is pretty good.

 

One thing I dislike about them, is the plastic, plastic covers here there and everywhere, and in our climate I could see it breaking pretty quickly. I could be wrong though, but that was just my first impression.

 

Just a few technical things you may need to consider, RG, CSU etc... all mean more maintenance, RG may mean you can't land in some places due to runway surface.

 

Make sure you take the weights into consideration, empty weight at 275kg for an RG is a little worrying! Makes you wonder what the aircraft is made off to be so light.

 

To cut a long story short, I don't mind both of them, but I would go the Sierra any day. If you can afford otherwise - the extra maintenance etc... Go for it I suppose. Gary's aircraft I reckon are the best bang for buck.

 

Just my 2 cents

 

Here is the sting

 

 

And the Sirius

 

 

 

 

 

[Admin]

I have heard that the sting dealership is about to be removed from the current importer and given to a another one so if you were thinking of the Sting I personally would wait.

 

Personally I would go with any aircraft from Gary Morgan...Australian supported, cheaper to own and maintain, getting a name for themselves and all of his aircraft are great machines...may possibly own one myself one day

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

I am currently very happy with the aircraft I own at the moment, a well developed and tough Aussie product, the Lightwing, out of Ballina.

 

I do like the Sierra/Cheetah range, they have a bright future, and I have been fully supportive of the efforts of those at Taree.

 

The Ibis and paradise P1 are nothing more than Cessna copies and appeal to me not.

 

Some of the Italian produced imports, although expensive, exhibit much style and quality that Italian produced aircraft have been known for, for many years.

 

The South American designed amphibs are great designes, well developed, and offer great value for money. Most have been popular the world over for years, and they should be well suited to flying conditions in this country.

 

The Eastern european bloc aircraft of which the Sting is just another example, look good and fly good. Unfortunatly their build quality can vary at times, parts availability can be troublesome, especially if sitting in remote Australia with something broken, awaiting for parts delivery from some obscure Eastern european factory. Often these European designs simply do not hold up well, to the rigors of Aussie flying.

 

I look foward to seeing more advanced Australian designs emerg, as I know we have the people in this country well capable of producing them.

 

I intend to keep my dollars in this country, supporting those efforts...................Maj...

 

 

[lightstorm]

Maybe a MCR Limousine?

 

Limousine S-LSA

 

 

[Mick]

Hi Disperse,

 

Good to see you back on the flying scene!

 

I have heard from a few people that the Sting is not the most friendly thing at low speed. This could be an issue with approach speeds and getting into tight strips.

 

Have heard nothing but good from those who have flown Gary Morgan's machines.

 

Regarding training in your own aircraft, I am not sure that it is the best way to go. I think it's best to go through the learning to land phase in a school plane and not be mistreating your new pride and joy. Also insuring your aircraft for ab-initio training may be costly. Personally I got my basic pilot certificate in the school's aircraft, then converted to my own aircraft. I then built hours for my passenger endorsement and did my cross county training in my own aircraft.

 

Cheers

 

Mick

 

 

[Guest disperse]

Limousine S-LSA[/url][/font]

MMmmm. very nice but the extra 30,000 euro puts it well over budget

 

 

[Tomo]

I would strongly suggest that you would be best served to get 12 months up in RA-Aus and fly as many different aircraft as you can get your hands on before you commit to one. Apart from how much fun that would be, it will affect your preference. You will be making a well informed decision rather than a choice based, perhaps, on nothing too substantial. I've been thinking about it for 12 months and am in a very different place than I was 12 months ago and I've been through a few different ideas as to what I wanted over that time.

X2 :thumb_up:

 

 

[dazza 38]

I would strongly suggest that you would be best served to get 12 months up in RA-Aus and fly as many different aircraft as you can get your hands on before you commit to one. Apart from how much fun that would be, it will affect your preference. You will be making a well informed decision rather than a choice based, perhaps, on nothing too substantial. I've been thinking about it for 12 months and am in a very different place than I was 12 months ago and I've been through a few different ideas as to what I wanted over that time.

So true.

 

 

[Guest davidh10]

I thought quite a bit about being able to trailer my aircraft, and it is trailerable, but then I thought... How much flying will I do if every time I want to fly, I have to unpack and rig it.

 

The result... I hangar it at the airfield. If i want to fly it only takes the time do do planning and pre-flight. If I go somewhere for a holiday and want to fly. I pay for a ride in a local aircraft.

 

I think the idea of trailering an aircraft is more appealing than the reality.

 

 

[Guest basscheffers]

If I were spending that kind of money, I'd also seriously look at the Piper sport.

 

If you want a good cruiser that's fast and carries a good load and don't mind a high-wing, also look at the Flight Design CT.

 

None are trailerable, but I think that is an overrated quality; seems too much of pain to regularly do.

 

If you do want to cross-hire, don't fall in love with "your" aircraft. Students will scratch and dent it. It's a bit like a landlord I once had: she just renovated the house to rent out now and move in later. When we left after a year, she was expecting it to not have a year's worth of wear and tear on it and wanted to make us pay thousands to replace bench tops with a few light scratches and such. Ain't gonna happen, love...

 

 

[Guest basscheffers]

Also: don't forget the extra cost of insuring a retractable, especially for a low time pilot!

 

There are two types of retractible gear light aircraft: those that have had a gear up landing and those that have not had one ... yet.

 

 

[Sloper]

Well l am hoping to get up to see Gary Morgan and a Couger next month.

 

regards Bruce

 

 

[Yenn]

Troy. You have some good suggestions here. My personal preference would be the gary Morgan plane. When you compare speeds remember that speed from A to B is not just the [lanes speed, but it is affected by fuel burn and tank capacity. If you can do the whole journey without refuelling you may be quicker than a faster plane which has to refuel on the way.

 

Gad to hear your accident has been resolved, it has been a long time.

 

 

[Guest disperse]

Before you purchase a plane on the basis that you can rig and de-rig every time you go for a fly, check with somebody who's done that and see whether they still think it's a good idea.

.

Compared to pulling 2 or 3 other wings out, then yours. Then put the others back and lock up again. 15 to 25 mins to de-rig and trailer sounds fair. But given the choice of a easy hanger, I would be leaving it in one piece.

 

 

[biggles5128]

Just an interesting observation, with all the replies to this post, I read pretty good support for gary Morgan, and rightly so, he makes a very fine aircraft indeed. The interesting thing here is that when a member asks for advice from the forum on the purchase of a Jabiru, all manner of negatives come through. Gary uses both Jabiru and Rotax engines in his aircraft but alas no negatives in relation to the reliability of his aircraft. I ask myself, why is it so?.... Is it that some people just knock the Jabiru engine when installed in a Jabiru aircraft or by the time Gary is producing the aircraft numbers that Jabiru are will he be subjected to the same criticisms. (as Jabiru rarely are criticised for their airframes).

 

Not being critical of anyone here, just throwing something out for thought.i_dunno

 

 

[Guest basscheffers]

If I were to buy an Aircraft from Gary, I'd buy it with a Rotax engine! :)

 

And I also criticise the Jab airframe! ;-) But that is not because of any real problems, just that it's not as nicely balanced and smooth to operate as, say, the SportStar. But that's because you get what you pay for; they are good reliable, safe airframes.

 

I don't think I would ever consider one of Gary's aircraft, they look a bit squeezy for me.

 

If I want to build a 4 seater one day, the Lightwing SP-4000 looks great; nearly the load and speed of an RV-10 at a fraction of the cost and build time. Almost sounds too good to be true?

 

 

[biggles5128]

Thanks destiny, would like to hear what Garry thought of the Jabiru engine if your happy to post here...

 

 

[biggles5128]

I think that healthy debate is good, as long as a product is not just knocked because of a bias towards another which may be unjustified. By all means qualify your statements and back it up with facts, don't just knock over the tall poppies.

 

Its a good thing we all have different tastes as we would be waiting 10 years for a Jabiru hey..............

 

 

[Guest disperse]

Thanks to all for your replies........ I am reading them all with interest. I too would like to hear more about the jab engine. without the ford v holden blindness. LOL

 

ok thanks again Troy

 

 

[Foto_Flyer]

Sorry to throw some extra choices into the mix, but as far as a kit plane is concerned, a solid little low wing with removable wings would be the Vans RV 12. Another that comes to mind is the Rans s-19 (although wings are fixed). Neither Australian I know, but both designed for Rotax engine and with the Aussie dollar what it is at the moment, hard to go past.

 

 

[wanabigaplane]

A compromise

 

How about a compromise?

 

Start learning in a club/school plane, then make your decision later with more experience and knowledge. Support your local school/club - they are most likely to need it anyway. Converting from one plane to another is nothing to worry about.

 

At a club/school you learn more than just what you need to know to get your certificate. You meet many owners and you learn a lot more than you possibly could from outside the game. Suddenly your ideas are changing - storage may not be the problem you think it is. Trailering a plane WILL be a bigger problem than you would believe. Travelling by air and hiring a car at the destination, is far better than trailering and assembling to fly at your destination.

 

I first thought I would love to fly locally, chase thermals, and land in local fields. I thought I could rig and de-rig my sapphire in no time and trailer it home. Boy did my ideas change!! I always stored it in the club hanger, and I mainly travelled long distances in it!

 

Most planes are advertised as being able to be put on a trailer in no time. However, unless they are designed for it by having hinges, and just being able to pull a pin and fold - forget it. Yes, you want to be able to put it on a trailer after you have had a mishap at a remote airfield, but you just aren't going to do it every time you go flying. Also note that most mishaps involve damage to the undercarriage, and how do you get your plane on the trailer?

 

The distance you can travel in a day is mainly determined by the size of your fuel tank. Don't worry about the last ten or so knots. If you have to stop more than once in a day for fuel, you are not going to get very far. If you don't believe this, just consider a trip you want to make, then work out your fuel stops where you can get fuel at the airfield. Remember - you are unlikely to meet dozens of willing Recreational Flying people waiting to help you out at remote airfields during the week.

 

Hope this helps. Jack.

 

 

[facthunter]

How much time does it Take.

 

Good advice there Jack. When I had the Citabria, I mostly did trips of more than 4 hours. It was a 90+ a few knots cruise. I found that very few aircraft got there ahead of me and I could often land enroute and not have to refuel. You could have a necessary comfort stop and get going again for the loss of only about 15 minutes.. Where a slow plane is a problem is when there is a headwind above 40 kts. or so. Might be better to wait a day and get better conditions, if your groundspeed is about 35 Kts. Nev