turboplanner Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 http://www.northweststar.com.au/news/local/news/general/low-fuel-forces-barkly-into-airstrip/2343805.aspx Tennant Creek to Mount Isa approx. 306 Nm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne T Mathews Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 Bloody excellent... It's good to see an incident with a "happy ending"... Well done that man... Keep the sunny side up, Wayne. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 They don't go far when that juice runs out do they! Good outcome, and some decent media. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgmwa Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 Good decision and good result, but he shouldn't have been cutting his fuel margin that fine in the first place. rgmwa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne T Mathews Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 Good decision and good result, but he shouldn't have been cutting his fuel margin that fine in the first place.rgmwa Excuse me???... Sounds to me like a harsh comment to make, unless you know the facts... Keep the sunny side up, Wayne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted November 2, 2011 Author Share Posted November 2, 2011 Good decision and good result, but he shouldn't have been cutting his fuel margin that fine in the first place.rgmwa It's big country up there rgma, have a look at the WAC chart only one landing area shown between Tennant Creek and Mt Isa, and that's Camooweal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 Bear in mind that it's always better to put the plane down while there is still SOME fuel left. If you just press on hoping, the engine will obviously cut at a place not of your choosing where there may be no chance of landing without damage and you won't have power to help you do the best job of getting it into a small space once the engine quits, either. On a long trip you should carry reserves of, a percentage of flight planned time, as well as enough extra to manoeuver around the circuit area. Winds can easily change to put you outside the coverage of the reserves you have allowed. Your main check ( in the absence of a flowmeter) is based on flight time and the KNOWN rate of fuel usage FOR THAT AIRCRAFT. This is a calculation so keep a flight log. Fuel gauges are rarely good enough to trust on their own, but it is still a good idea to keep a running record of your readings and compare them with what you would expect to have from your calculations.. You could also have a fuel leak or the engine for some reason start to use more fuel than usual. ( air filter blocked with dust/ insects.) Remote area flying requires special care. IF you are going down it is especially necessary to alert someone to your situation early, so you can be located as quickly as possible. Contact ATC and worry about the paperwork later.Nev 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgmwa Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 I know it's a big country, and I'm not being overly critical. Could happen to me too. He clearly did a good job - safe landing with fuel in the tanks and no harm done. However, the fact that it is a big country means you need to be extra careful to make sure you have sufficient fuel reserves to cover things like unexpectedly strong headwinds. Just how much reserve to allow is a pilot decision. While you can never eliminate all the risk, if he had been over bad country, it could have been a different story. rgmwa 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted November 3, 2011 Author Share Posted November 3, 2011 This would be a good flight to reconstruct on paper to see what we would have done given the same circumstances. Were the tanks full on departure? Did the wind come up before Camooweal? Was fuel available/strip serviceable at Camooweal? Would an earlier 180 and fast downwind return to Camooweal have been a better option? Was this a Jab wing tank thing where you couldn't be sure how much fuel was in the tanks at the start or the finish? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne T Mathews Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 This would be a good flight to reconstruct on paper to see what we would have done given the same circumstances.Were the tanks full on departure? Did the wind come up before Camooweal? Was fuel available/strip serviceable at Camooweal? Would an earlier 180 and fast downwind return to Camooweal have been a better option? Was this a Jab wing tank thing where you couldn't be sure how much fuel was in the tanks at the start or the finish? Say what???... You want the facts???... Fair go, Turbs... Keep the sunny side up, Wayne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonym Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 It's big country up there rgma, have a look at the WAC chart only one landing area shown between Tennant Creek and Mt Isa, and that's Camooweal. For anyone else planning Tennant Crk to YBMA, Barkly Homestead also has AVGAS from a pump. I can't remember if it is marked on the WAC and it's probably only 1/3 the way to YBMA but, if the fuel calculations look skinny, it's a good (s)topping point. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man emu Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 Just getting away from the incident for a moment, but I think this comment could have been better thought out: "Recreational pilots are all trained in emergency landings because the engines on recreational planes are more prone to stoppage" I bet Jabiru and Rotax loove to hear that sort of comment from a leader of an organisation which uses their products. OME 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaz3g Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 It's big country up there rgma, have a look at the WAC chart only one landing area shown between Tennant Creek and Mt Isa, and that's Camooweal. Perhaps throw in Barkley Tableland Homestead as an alternate. I stopped in there a couple of years ago and enjoyed the food and the bed. Avgas is available but not cheap! Also mogas. kaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted November 3, 2011 Author Share Posted November 3, 2011 Problem is Kaz, you left base, flew for some time, realised you had a head wind, an hour later it was stronger etc. so you look at the WAC while you are bumping around. Camooweal was the only circle and even that doesn't guarantee a serviceable airstrip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techie49 Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 Just getting away from the incident for a moment, but I think this comment could have been better thought out:"Recreational pilots are all trained in emergency landings because the engines on recreational planes are more prone to stoppage" I bet Jabiru and Rotax loove to hear that sort of comment from a leader of an organisation which uses their products. OME Yes I saw that one too. Perhaps the gentleman concerned might like to enlighten us as to why that is........................ Paul Toone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted November 3, 2011 Author Share Posted November 3, 2011 Yes I saw that one too. Perhaps the gentleman concerned might like to enlighten us as to why that is........................Paul Toone John was just being open and telling it like it is. For enlightenment, check the magazine each month for forced landings caused by engine failures, then compare them with the ATSB reports from GA, you'll sure focus on potential landing spots after that When you get a call from a Journalist there's no time to come up with a word perfect teflon comment, as you could if you had the time to look up facts and prepare one. There was a bit of overlap with comments, but that would have been caused by the journalist phoning the different people, Ops Mgr not being available by deadline etc. I think they did a good job. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest davidh10 Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 ...For enlightenment, check the magazine each month for forced landings caused by engine failures, then .. and look at which one is over represented.I thought the report was fine too. The average punter won't even blink in reading it. I think anyone critical of the report is over analysing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man emu Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 Just getting away from the incident for a moment, but I think this comment could have been better thought out:"Recreational pilots are all trained in emergency landings because the engines on recreational planes are more prone to stoppage" I bet Jabiru and Rotax loove to hear that sort of comment from a leader of an organisation which uses their products.OME Sorry, I ws just thinking like a tabloid journalist looking for some sensationalism. OME Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnarly Gnu Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 I think this comment could have been better thought out:"Recreational pilots are all trained in emergency landings because the engines on recreational planes are more prone to stoppage" Well it is factually correct. Personally I like people that just say things as they are. Assuming he actually said this that is, newspapers often just make stuff up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 New man in the job. I would suggest that there is always a tendency to say too much. I don't think too much damage has occurred though. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbo Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 The weather across the Barkly and this time of year can be best discribed as Windy with a chance of unforecasted long term gusts. September last year.. Tennant creek to Rockhampton Downs, approx 87 nm - 1.5 hrs ourbound and 38mins inbound. August 2009 - Mt Isa to Tennant. 3.15 hours outbound and 5.6 hours inbound. July 2009 - Tennant creek to Mount Isa.. 6 hours 25mins outbound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 306 NM is a fair run in anything, and would require carefull and accurate planning. It's not just a case of'fill the tanks and away we go'....... You can always expect some wind in that country, unless you get off at first light, but even then by 8am ish it'll be there for sure, just like the day before, and the day before that. This is not the only recent incident of this type in a Jab in remote country, is therer a theme developing here. A precautionary landing with fuel on board is definitly the way to go in that situation...The press were very kind in this case, and highlights that we have people in the field and an organization that is capable of dealing with these situations in an organized manner...................Maj... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbo Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 It's big country up there rgma, have a look at the WAC chart only one landing area shown between Tennant Creek and Mt Isa, and that's Camooweal. Barkly homestead (fuel and the robbery that goes with it!).. Avon Downs Police station.. (fuel can be arranged - have a chat to the boys!), Austral Downs (direct line Barkly homestead, Mt Isa) Phone call - but don't even think about in Mustering season. Numerous 'suitable' prepared paddock landing sites (read roads). Most Bores will have a strip of some 'type' next to them! Bores are really handy as the dam is a great indicator of wind direction. DONT trust windmill tail direction. All of them are decommisioned and I have seen several that are seized in place until the next wind storm. Remember a Cow can walk 8 miles a day so the bores along the old stock routes are a pretty good indicator of distance. Several stations will sell AVGAS with prior arrangement. Most station managers have exposure to Rag and Tube mustering so are fairly accomadating. AAco used to - but it was stopped around 2 years ago.. Not even the mail plane is allowed fuel anymore! Remember to make a donation to the social club.. Beer or $$ for a slab. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest davidh10 Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Oh no! Not another unit of measure for aviation.... "Cow days". (and I presume, being terrestrial creatures, those are Statute Miles. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted November 7, 2011 Author Share Posted November 7, 2011 Unless they are old cows in which case it is megalithic miles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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