So what makes a good landing?

[Yenn]

It's so long since I landed a nose gear plane can someone tell me what the diferences are?

 

 

[Wayne T Mathews]

It's so long since I landed a nose gear plane can someone tell me what the diferences are?

After the bumpy bit is over, the folks with nosewheels can usually see where they're going...

 

 

[dazza 38]

TW Drivers generally find a tri gear a piece of cake. They are waiting for the aircraft to bite them, if they get it wrong.Lets face it, TW drivers are more in tuned with their ride. Not being on top of your ride, normaly ends up in something getting bent in a TW. Doesnt happen with Tri gear, (unless the driver is realy out of their league)Tri Gear aircraft are forgiving.By that I mean, they dont bite you , like a TW can.

 

 

[djpacro]

Stalling one to three inches above the ground ........ This is the same technique for tailwheel ......

Nope, we had this discussion sometime last year.

[rdarby]

Today I did a greaser, I swear I had run along the ground for a few seconds before I realised I was actually on the ground. I was so happy as I knew the guy who taught me to fly was watching. Until I got to the hangar and saw he had gone home. And the passenger didn't seem to think it was anything special, but last time I took her it was a thumper in bad wind and she thought it was good. And that was after I had to go around I couldn't keep it straight. You can't please anyone!

 

 

[dazza 38]

Today I did a greaser, I swear I had run along the ground for a few seconds before I realised I was actually on the ground. I was so happy as I knew the guy who taught me to fly was watching. Until I got to the hangar and saw he had gone home. And the passenger didn't seem to think it was anything special, but last time I took her it was a thumper in bad wind and she thought it was good. And that was after I had to go around I couldn't keep it straight. You can't please anyone!

Good Stuff mate (Ryan I think) .

 

 

[kiwicrusader]

How do you guys do that quote thing from other posts?

 

Don't recall the dicussion last year djpacro, but you will be hard pushed to change my mind on this. Tail low wheelers are acceptable in some circumstances, but there is very rarely a need, landing on normal aerodromes.

 

Landing as slow as possible should always be the aim, IMHO.

 

 

[facthunter]

There is no technique for all types and occasions. Braking and reverse thrust are absolutely normal on some types. You can't really brake till the nosewheel is lowered onto the runway, so long holdoffs are not on. You'll eat up the runway.. On smaller stuff, on grass you don't need brakes at all. Tigermoths didn't have them originally.

 

Touching down above the right speed for your configuration and weight is a no no.. You'll float or cook the brakes, or land on the nosewheel. Higher than correct speed approaches are not good practice. You can get lazy and add a bit of speed but it is a bad habit, and if you don't do something about it, when you get to a short runway one day you will have difficulty.

 

I saw an Auster from Sydney make over 20 approaches to Broadmeadows aerodrome.( District Park). He/she got the wheels on the ground a few times , but never looked like being able to land it. Nev

 

 

[djpacro]

I'll try then.

 

Noel Kruse's free book Fly Better #2 has an excellent explanation. He also just happens to use the Pitts as an example in his Figure 6 on page 31.

 

Figure Six is an external view of a Pitts S2S in the correct landing attitude just prior to touchdown. The fuselage is 12º from horizontal; therefore the wings, due to their incidence, are at an angle of attack of 13.5º, which is much less than their critical angle of attack.

 

Suggest start reading from Page 26.

 

Landing gear was lengthened about halfway through the production of Pitts Model S-2As. i.e later ones had a much higher ground angle, same as the S-2S. In both the three-point technique is to put all three wheels on the ground at pretty much the same time. As Noel said above the high gear models are sitting on the ground at less than the stall angle. The low gear models sit on the ground at an even shallower angle.

 

So, not stalled a few inches above the ground.

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

How do you guys do that quote thing from other posts?

Just click on 'reply' on the far right hand side of the page Kiwi.

 

Then click on 'like' right next to it for Gnu posts.

 

 

[kiwicrusader]

Thanks Gnarly,

 

Djpacro, no I mean reaching the critical angle of attack at a couple of inches above the ground is IMHO a perfect landing. However as you have quite rightly stated most taildraggers are not at the critical angle in the three point attitude. The only one that I have flown that is, is a tiger moth, but I bet those cubs with the big tundra tyres are pretty close too. However it can still be done. As an aerobatic pilot,that you claim to be, I am sure you are aware that an aerofoil can stall at any speed and any attitude. So why not at the three point attitude an inch above the ground? This can be done from a very unorthodox approach with the use of power at the correct moment. There are alot of aircraft I wouldn't try this in but some can do it beautifully, and when done right, gives a landing role shorter than any other technique I have seen to date.

 

On a forum like this, where 98% of us approach at 1.3Vs, yes the three point attitude is not the critical angle of attack in most tail draggers and therefore not stalled.

 

So my point... stalling it on, if you can, produces the best landing, as i have previously stated. If you can't, then landing as slow as possible is your next best option.

 

 

[djpacro]

...This can be done from a very unorthodox approach with the use of power at the correct moment. ... and when done right, gives a landing role shorter than any other technique I have seen to date. ...

Good. When I was flying the Husky around the Rocky Mountains that's what I'd do.

 

...... with the use of power at the correct moment. There are alot of aircraft I wouldn't try this in....

Me too, but I admit to not flying many different types these days.More generally, with the fixed pitch propeller, no flaps Decathlon especially when below the best glide speed(back side of the drag curve) the effect of adding power is to simply carry it a lot further down the runway (i.e. on approach, airspeed responds to elevator; nil airspeed response to power).

 

 

[naremman]

The precceding two posts contain bucketloads of collective wisdom, but would probably relate to an absolute minimum of conducted flights.

 

Most flights would be conducted safely form 50' AGL over the threshold with 1.3 stall airspeed. That is a great standard to adhere to, and once a pilot cuts inside this a throrough knowledge of their own skills and capabilities, coupled with a familiarity of their aircraft is beneficial to achieving "old pilot" status.

 

We have generally read this thread to produce "greaser landings". There are some instances where a good landing is one where the landing enables one to be stopped by the end of the runway. Short bush strips, Ag operations and PNG mountain flying focus more on nailing the threshold, with bugger all over the stall speed, than aiming for a greaser. I reckon there have been strips that the aircraft pictured for kiwicrusader would have operated from, that would have accumulated heaps of crumpled aluminium if the general flying populace been given access to it.

 

With reference to TW aircraft. I have observed some C180s and Austers set up in the short field configuration hit solidly tail wheel first and the subsequent mainwheel rebound demonstration has been spectacular!! Without exception these pilots found the limits of the throttle stop in nanoseconds!!