pudestcon Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 Thanks David.No thanks to Pud for yet another TLA I can't guess Aircraft On Ground leads to Low Altitude Sickness TLA???? Pud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thirsty Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 Three Letter Acronym :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 It's the STDs you have to watch !!..........................................Maj... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dieselten Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 AOG = Aircraft On Ground. The sort of thing nightmares are composed of for airline executives. We lesser mortals just grit our teeth and turn to the standby aircraft. At least with a small fleet there is usually something that is flyable on any given day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
planedriver Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 AOG = At least with a small fleet there is usually something that is flyable on any given day. Yea! I reckon kites can be good fun too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dieselten Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Still AOG after 3 calendar months. Not happy. :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ozzie Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Gee Ned i do feel sorry for you and others in your situation. Such a huge outlay and very little enjoyment in return. No doubt the bills keep rolling in for it, rego, hanger fees etc. lot of people laugh at my 30 year old 100cc chainsaw engines for the Laz, but if one pops a cork i just wander over to the trailer grab one of the 4 spares and after a five minute swap out, yes that's 5 minutes,(two wires, two long bolts, one fuel line and throttle cable), and i'm having fun again. But really i do feel for you. You and others do deserve better reliability for your outlay. I should be the one having the problems contiuously, considering my investment outlay. silly isn't it. Ozzie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hongie Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 this really a secondary concern tothe fact that you are at 500ft and suddenly the big fan stops, but with the low time engines that have gone belly up, has jabiru payed for them? Ie. what if any warranty is there on them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vev Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Hi D10, Have Jab given you a reason for the hold up? Have they said anything about the cause of your thru-bolt failure? Cheers Vev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 hongie, others may reply but from everything I have seen and heard, Jabiru tend to do the right thing concerning warrantee. i wonder if they got a bit of rain into their premises D10? The more they look into your problem maybe the better the outcome at the end. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dieselten Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 The only outcome I want is an engine for which the manufacturer claims a 2000 hr TBO actually achieves it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 The only outcome I want is an engine for which the manufacturer claims a 2000 hr TBO actually achieves it. To be honest, I would buy a Rotax, Lycoming or Continental.IMO PS- Sure alot of their engines make TBO, but alot dont.What concerns me is the fairly new engines that fail.Maintence has not played apart in the failures.Sure all engines can fail, but they IMO fail more than most. I stopped flying them along time ago.I had a partial failure on a 1600 with less that a couple of hundreds hours on her. This is back when they were fairly in their infancy. The "new" 2200 was fitted, it wasnt much better.This was a long time ago.But what i read here,and in Defect reports, they are not bullet proof.And IMO Aircraft engines need to be as Bullet proof as can be made, to take abuse.Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 Just a shame Rotax don't have something that competes with the 3300 Jab engine for cost and power - or a good thing for Jabiru. I'm sure there isn't anyone on this Forum that doesn't wish Jabiru every success in improving the reliability of their engines. I even have a feeling that they've become serious about achieving that. But, they'll have to have achieved better before I'll risk my passenger's life. I hope they do mate,the design is basic. They will have too IMO beef up some internal parts for the cost of weight.As Ross (Major Millard) mentioned last week the Jabiru design has been around for nearly 20 years. My failure was the classic back in the day, Rocket arm flexing to the point, where it stopped kissing the top of the valve, and dislodge.That has been solved since I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vev Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 It would be nice to have an engine that doesn’t fail at anytime, however some (not all) of the opinion here seems to be based on old engine and old experience which is unqualified and unsupported with any current data. I think Jabiru is getting it more right than wrong and their current engine is very strong. I believe (support by Jabiru notices) much of the last few engine problems were caused by the lean economy jetting, which had done long term damage to the engine even if only used for a few hours … unfortunately we are still seeing failures today that was caused pre 2007. Some lessons learnt by others around the world, particularly the Africans, showed that if you get the jetting right the engine does run TBO. To simplify the learning, always run your engine EGT under 1250 deg f , which is code for, run your engine rich … if you don’t have EGT’s fitted you have no way of knowing if you are shortening the life of your engine. For what it’s worth, you will also surely shorten the life of any air cooled engine if you run it lean, therefore Jab isn’t on their own. In my experience I have found Jab are quite reasonable when it has come to putting things right and have been very good at providing support and parts free of charge or heavily discounted. Furthermore I know that Jab take engine failures very seriously and do try to deep dive any failures to develop solutions. Cheers Vev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 It would be nice to have an engine that doesn’t fail at anytime, however some (not all) of the opinion here seems to be based on old engine and old experience which is unqualified and unsupported with any current data. I think Jabiru is getting it more right than wrong and their current engine is very strong. I believe (support by Jabiru notices) much of the last few engine problems were caused by the lean economy jetting, which had done long term damage to the engine even if only used for a few hours … unfortunately we are still seeing failures today that was caused pre 2007. Some lessons learnt by others around the world, particularly the Africans, showed that if you get the jetting right the engine does run TBO. To simplify the learning, always run your engine EGT under 1250 deg f , which is code for, run your engine rich … if you don’t have EGT’s fitted you have no way of knowing if you are shortening the life of your engine. For what it’s worth, you will also surely shorten the life of any air cooled engine if you run it lean, therefore Jab isn’t on their own. In my experience I have found Jab are quite reasonable when it has come to putting things right and have been very good at providing support and parts free of charge or heavily discounted. Furthermore I know that Jab take engine failures very seriously and do try to deep dive any failures to develop solutions. Cheers Vev I totally agree Vev, thats why I mentioned that my experience was back in the day when the engines where near the start of their development phase. Just wanted to make that clear to everybody. The March/April Flight Safety SDR'S for the Jabiru as a example -For those that do not get the magazine, i will rewrite it here. SDR-510011691 2200J Flywheel bolts (2 off) failed during removal. Total time since new 1800 This example shows that the engine was well on the way to reaching TBO. Another example- SDR 510011875 3300 No6- cylinder exhaust valve damaged Fault found- exhaust valve small piece missing TSN- only 227 hours. the list goes on.etc engine seized, piston holed etc etc. I understand that alot of the failures are related to running to lean, and or maintenance . But I think that there are still to many low TT failures, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the professor Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 I have read so much in recent times about the Jabiru 2200 engine's problems and I think that I can safely say that it is very hard to seperate fact from fiction.On this point I don't think that I'm on my own. Anyway just an idea but how about we seperate the fact from the fiction and use this thread to report on the factual problems the end users of this power plant have experienced. That is anything ranging from a minor problem to a major problem resulting in a complete engine failure. The reporting should be brief at first just enough to establish a trend and then a more in depth examination of the issue could be embarked upon. For example state the problem and the resultant effect and only if 100% known the cause of the problem, no guessing please. We don't at this point need engine hours, place of incident or the time of the year. These matters to start with are irrelevant to the initial categorisation of the various problems. It is my view that by approaching the issue this way with the reporting of absolute fact not theory or guess work the end result will benefit all end users of these motors. Also there should not be self denial, everyone who has had a genuine mechanical problem with these motors please report it here in this thread. No Jabiru knockers please as this type of activity achieves nothing for anyone. It is my view that by doing this if there are genuine major problems with the subject motor then they need to be identified and rectified, not just be the Saturday night topic of bellyachers and whingers. It does work look what Tony Hayes has achieved with the Thruster Group. Regards to all, Rick-p;) I have read so much in recent times about the Jabiru 2200 engine's problems and I think that I can safely say that it is very hard to seperate fact from fiction.On this point I don't think that I'm on my own. Anyway just an idea but how about we seperate the fact from the fiction and use this thread to report on the factual problems the end users of this power plant have experienced. That is anything ranging from a minor problem to a major problem resulting in a complete engine failure. The reporting should be brief at first just enough to establish a trend and then a more in depth examination of the issue could be embarked upon. For example state the problem and the resultant effect and only if 100% known the cause of the problem, no guessing please. We don't at this point need engine hours, place of incident or the time of the year. These matters to start with are irrelevant to the initial categorisation of the various problems. It is my view that by approaching the issue this way with the reporting of absolute fact not theory or guess work the end result will benefit all end users of these motors. Also there should not be self denial, everyone who has had a genuine mechanical problem with these motors please report it here in this thread. No Jabiru knockers please as this type of activity achieves nothing for anyone. It is my view that by doing this if there are genuine major problems with the subject motor then they need to be identified and rectified, not just be the Saturday night topic of bellyachers and whingers. It does work look what Tony Hayes has achieved with the Thruster Group. Regards to all, Rick-p;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the professor Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 I have a 2200 engine, approx. the last of the solid lifters. Am experiencing a fair deal of vibration under about 2400 rpm, and down to almost idle rpm, which is independent of airspeed. It has the lean kit fitted. I am wondering if it's too lean, and perhaps a different needle and seat may help. Anybody else experienced similar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 IF you are getting vibrations, find out why. Check your compressions for a start. You might as well tension heads and check valve clearances first ( even if it was done in the last 10 hours.) Don't run the lean kit Don't run the lean kit ( repeat 100 times.) Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thirsty Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 I had a thru bolt go on me on Sunday during a solo nav. I was flying along at 3500' having a lovely time and I just sort of noticed the engine didn't sound quite right. Nothing dramatic, just a kind of whoofing sound. As I was heading over high/rough terrain I headed back. After landing I took the cowls off and noticed the lower No 1 thru bolt was broken. Oil everywhere of course. Pulled the cylinder off and everything looked good so we put a new thru bolt in and buttoned her up. Going good now. A very strange coincidence though - a friend of mine with a J160 had a thru bolt go at 360 hrs from new. The engine that went on me was a reco unit (large fins and solid lifter) and that also went at around 360 hrs. This engine has had a thru bolt go before (when it was new) but I haven't yet looked to see what hours that happened at. The J160 is privately owned and is very well maintained and flown by someone with excellent mechanical sympathy whereas the a/c that went on me is a training school aircraft flown by hamfisted students. I don't know what conclusions can be drawn from this but I'm looking forward to the Jab engine forum at Natfly :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vev Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 I have a 2200 engine, approx. the last of the solid lifters. Am experiencing a fair deal of vibration under about 2400 rpm, and down to almost idle rpm, which is independent of airspeed. It has the lean kit fitted. I am wondering if it's too lean, and perhaps a different needle and seat may help. Anybody else experienced similar? Hi Pro, There could be a number if reasons as to why your engine is running rough .... read from the attached link in section 12 to kick you off. J2200 Engine Maintenance Solid Valve Lifter Models Manual Attached is the link on carby turning .... the lean burn jetting must not be run and needs to be replaced soonest. JSB018-2 Jabiru Engine Tuning However I would suggest if engine diagnosis is not your skill set go and find yourself a good L2.... getting things right 1st time is sort of important in an aircraft! Lets us know how you get on? Cheers Vev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 I don't like the idea of NOT doing an engine strip after a through bolt lets go. It's a very significant occurrence. There can easily or (most likely) be damage that affects the continued reliability of the engine, Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetjr Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 Can someone who goes to the Jab engine forums PLEASE post a summary, theres more than a few here who cant make it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 I have been to quite a few of these and beyond the basics, little is covered. If you think that you are going to be across the sort of things that we are addressing here. good luck to you. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dieselten Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 Well, my engine's back, sitting in a box at the airport. Full overhaul, both top and bottom end plus anything else. Zero-timed. Updated pushrods, rockers, oil-feed to the heads. New oil-cooler adapter. Slight change to idle-jet and main carby-needle. New, longer through-bolts and nuts as per the Service Bulletin recently released. Will hope to hang it tomorrow and maybe start running-in on Friday - maybe. Cost? About $5400 plus a few bucks and freight. For a complete overhaul to zero-time, and upgraded to the latest specs, I consider this very reasonable. Now we'll see how long this one lasts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 Good Luck, let us know how it goes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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