Oscar Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 And anyone converting from GA won't be expecting bird strike on the tail from behind, either. Evidently, you wouldn't consider it your responsibility to provide a briefing on flying a constipated deckchair . Personally, I'd take them for a check flight before lending them my aircraft, and ensure they knew the finer points of operating it - but that's just me, obviously. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 oscar, you are describing the old common sense way, the new way is that every pilot is trained to maintain every aircraft.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M61A1 Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 Here we go... trying to legislate against natural selection again. The saying "you can lead a horse to water" comes to mind. Not suggesting that our aircraft shouldn't be maintained to a decent standard, but, that if you're smart enough to learn to fly, surely you're smart enough to recognize maintenance deficiencies/ unserviceabilities, or educate (or seek education) yourself, to adequately cover your needs. Perhaps just include it in the BFR, might be a good idea, or do we have instructors out there without a clue as well? Perhaps it's just me, but I would be appalled to find we've reached a similar situation a our vehicle drivers, who can have a licence, but wouldn't know where to find a dipstick, or how to change a tyre. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 The real culprit is the RAA for agreeing to this, the test is either effective and comprehensive which requires some serious training or its quick, generic and pointless. A few flight schools going to get a nice pay cheque out of this but its money taken away from real maintenance... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruffasguts Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 Here we go... trying to legislate against natural selection again. The saying "you can lead a horse to water" comes to mind.Not suggesting that our aircraft shouldn't be maintained to a decent standard, but, that if you're smart enough to learn to fly, surely you're smart enough to recognize maintenance deficiencies/ unserviceabilities, or educate (or seek education) yourself, to adequately cover your needs. Perhaps just include it in the BFR, might be a good idea, or do we have instructors out there without a clue as well? Perhaps it's just me, but I would be appalled to find we've reached a similar situation a our vehicle drivers, who can have a licence, but wouldn't know where to find a dipstick, or how to change a tyre. Instructors are there to teach people to fly they have no need to know maintenance as well the problem stems from the early days when most people were enthusiasts building and maintaining simple aircraft ,now we have aircraft which make GA look stupid and people who want to use them like motor cars, and see Raaus as a cheap way to do it with little regard(and no knowledge) to the maintenance needs of these complex aircraft Mick W 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teckair Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 Any pilot including GA pilots who want to fly a 2 stroke powered Drifter are required to have a 2 stroke endorsement and that will include knowing how the oil works, end of story. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M61A1 Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 Instructors are there to teach people to fly they have no need to know maintenance as wellthe problem stems from the early days when most people were enthusiasts building and maintaining simple aircraft ,now we have aircraft which make GA look stupid and people who want to use them like motor cars, and see Raaus as a cheap way to do it with little regard(and no knowledge) to the maintenance needs of these complex aircraft Mick W Agreed, except, in regard to pilot maintenance, the instructors should have a very good understanding, all part of the instruction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 Any pilot including GA pilots who want to fly a 2 stroke powered Drifter are required to have a 2 stroke endorsement and that will include knowing how the oil works, end of story. What if the drifter uses premix? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 What if the drifter uses premix? Real simple FT...50 to 1 mix....even you could understand that !................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlegg Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 All HR, Safety scenarios, industry wide, must reduce its membership down to the lowest common denominator, train for that and hope for the best.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M61A1 Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 Real simple FT...50 to 1 mix....even you could understand that !................. But wouldn't that use a lot of oil.......with 50 parts oil, and 1 part fuel? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M61A1 Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 All HR, Safety scenarios, industry wide, must reduce its membership down to the lowest common denominator, train for that and hope for the best.......... The problem is, we're an association not an industry, we're here to fly for fun ,not make money through our employees. Even when reading CASA's guide about SMS's, it appears to assume that everyone is a money making company with employees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahlocks Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 But wouldn't that use a lot of oil.......with 50 parts oil, and 1 part fuel? No not really. A couple of pulls on the zippity cord should see the motor not using much of either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 Spare a thought for Grandad, he's the wrong side of seventy, going senile, deaf in the left ear, being grounded by the RAA because he doesn't know the correct technique to check the landing wire tension or sail cloth condition of his J170c. He has no idea what is going on but he's a safe pilot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M61A1 Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 No not really. A couple of pulls on the zippity cord should see the motor not using much of either. So, it's more economical then?........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahlocks Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 Hey, it's only money.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlegg Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 The problem is, we're an association not an industry, we're here to fly for fun ,not make money through our employees.Even when reading CASA's guide about SMS's, it appears to assume that everyone is a money making company with employees. Problem really is that aircraft are crashing and killing pilots and passengers. Rescue personnel have to clean up the mess. Association's belong on the bowl's club rinks. Fact is pilots/owners have to step up to the mark and educate themselves on there particular aircraft. No doubt the vast majority do, but the flip side of the coin says that lots can do with more education on maintenance requirements on there planes, as already admitted by some so far. Times are changing, and fast, best be proactive and get in front of the curve-ball..... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M61A1 Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 Problem really is that aircraft are crashing and killing pilots and passengers. Rescue personnel have to clean up the mess. Association's belong on the bowl's club rinks.Fact is pilots/owners have to step up to the mark and educate themselves on there particular aircraft. No doubt the vast majority do, but the flip side of the coin says that lots can do with more education on maintenance requirements on there planes, as already admitted by some so far. Times are changing, and fast, best be proactive and get in front of the curve-ball..... Have a look at what little you can find about RAA accident history, and see how many are related to maintenance, and how many are pilot related. I personally think that education is needed elsewhere to be making much of a difference. Aircraft are not crashing.....pilots are. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevron Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 I wonder if there's any recognition of courses such as SAAA maintenance course as that was a 2 day course and a exam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teckair Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 This confusion in some quarters about 2 stroke oil usage, if it is not just trolls being useless, shows just how much we have lost our heritage. It is not as if it is a hard concept to understand but some appear to have no idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teckair Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 Spare a thought for Grandad, he's the wrong side of seventy, going senile, deaf in the left ear, being grounded by the RAA because he doesn't know the correct technique to check the landing wire tension or sail cloth condition of his J170c.He has no idea what is going on but he's a safe pilot! Yep a troll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M61A1 Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 This confusion in some quarters about 2 stroke oil usage, if it is not just trolls being useless, shows just how much we have lost our heritage. It is not as if it is a hard concept to understand but some appear to have no idea. Apologies for the p*sstaking in regard to two-stroke oil, I have been mixing pre-mix since I was a young tacker, I do not consider it a difficult task. Some akin to getting yourself a drink of water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 Can you still do it in imperial? Say 4.5 gallons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teckair Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 Apologies for the p*sstaking in regard to two-stroke oil, I have been mixing pre-mix since I was a young tacker, I do not consider it a difficult task. Some akin to getting yourself a drink of water. Yeah not you I was thinking of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 Suck it up teck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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