Oscar Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 I hesitate to get into this particular debate because I've seen the way that the 'sides' have an unbridgeable abyss between them, but to me there is a far simpler equation than all the digging through 'evidence' / theory for fragments to prove / disprove things. IF global warming theories regarding anthropogenic causation are incorrect, then by having worked on the basis that they were valid, all that has been lost is short-term economic gain (not economic ruin, that is a wild over-egging of the cake) and less depletion of natural resources, thus allowing longer future exploitation of those resources in a likely more benign climatic situation. Or, in simple terms, we all haven't gotten richer quite as quickly, but we've left more resources (of which the environment is one) to allow a stable continuation of human existence. IF the connection between anthropogenic activity and global-warming is correct, then beyond a certain point there will be irreparable damage to the continuation of our existence in (at the very least) any familiar form. The key word here is 'irreparable'. As a species we may be able to either a) evolve to be able to handle a new environmental situation, or b) develop 'coping' strategies and technologies (or more probably, a combination of both). The essence of the problem is, I believe, that as things stand we have little reason to be in any way sure we can evolve / develop suitable coping strategies / technologies. IF, as a species, we cannot do that fast enough, then all the accumulated wealth from continuing the current scale of exploitation of resources including the environment cannot guarantee our future state. We won't be able to trade our big houses, Jet skis, whatever, for a better environment, or to put the resources back in the ground, rejuvenate food-growing areas, etc. Without a reliable mechanism to secure our future IF the GW proponents happen to be right, then continuation of current practices is an entirely one-way street. IF the GW proponents re wrong, then all we have lost by taking action, is a bit of wealth creation. To me, the anti-GW argument is rather too much akin to the old 'so far, so good' argument when falling off the cliff. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnarly Gnu Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 The question of population is a different one and I agree with you OK. Flying over cities today is like looking down on a growing cancer. I would like to see action that reduces global populations in order to save elephants, tigers, rhinos and so on. I think that is a far bigger threat than climate change and I don't understand why people aren't reacting to it. So why don't you go first Mr cancer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Perry Posted February 16, 2014 Author Share Posted February 16, 2014 Since I originally started this thread whilst having a whinge about our airfield being shut by the weather which quickly metamorphosed into a climate change discussion, I hope I have not offended anyone by the way, as another poster once said, If you don't like this opinion. . . . .I have others. . . . Anyway, back to mundane things. . . . I took these few pics early this morning after an evening of severely high winds, . . . . . I don't think there is any climate change connection here, as this seems to happen at our airfield every couple of years or so, when it's windy, and someone forgets to check the forecast and then the tiedowns . . . very sad though, the BFC Challenger broke free when the hangar covering stripped off. It hit the steelwork of the tunnel hangar a couple of times then impaled itself on a trailer jockey wheel. The other two aircraft in the hangar, a Mignet Ballerit (sort of flying flea with folding wings if you have none of these in Austrtalia ) and a Mk one X'Air were missed by a couple of centimetres. I managed to get a free breakfast from the aircraft owner after helping him to lift the aircraft back to where it was supposed to be, and peg it down securely. It will need some serious work, there are dents all over the leading edges, and two of the main strut tubes are badly dented, covering broken through in several places on the fuse and wings, and one grp wingtip smashed. this aircraft had a total of 25 hours flight test time in it's life,. . . even more sad. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 Phil Mate, you're making us all want to move over there! I hope your friend has insurance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 Thoughtful post, your last one Oscar Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 As a child I didn't expect to reach 21 because of the expected nuclear war, then the Club of Rome said we would have global starvation by about 1995. I'm a Geoscientist which means I know a bit about the earth ( but really mainly about the economic minerals) and I'm just not persuaded that this round of scary stuff will wipe me out either. I'm pretty sure that man is affecting climate a little, but I reckon we are just as likely to go into an ice age as to warm up. That is really a reflection of the poor state of our knowledge. I think geologists have a better understanding than the self-appointed climate scientists ( in fact there is no such discipline in science). And to those hanging it on the filthy rich miners, who do you have in mind? Most mining companies are public companies, so we can all buy their shares if we think that makes you filthy rich. It hasn't worked for me yet, but I live in hope. Since I originally started this thread whilst having a whinge about our airfield being shut by the weather which quickly metamorphosed into a climate change discussion, I hope I have not offended anyone by the way, as another poster once said, If you don't like this opinion. . . . .I have others. . . . Anyway, back to mundane things. . . .I took these few pics early this morning after an evening of severely high winds, . . . . . I don't think there is any climate change connection here, as this seems to happen at our airfield every couple of years or so, when it's windy, and someone forgets to check the forecast and then the tiedowns . . . very sad though, the BFC Challenger broke free when the hangar covering stripped off. It hit the steelwork of the tunnel hangar a couple of times then impaled itself on a trailer jockey wheel. The other two aircraft in the hangar, a Mignet Ballerit (sort of flying flea with folding wings if you have none of these in Austrtalia ) and a Mk one X'Air were missed by a couple of centimetres. I managed to get a free breakfast from the aircraft owner after helping him to lift the aircraft back to where it was supposed to be, and peg it down securely. It will need some serious work, there are dents all over the leading edges, and two of the main strut tubes are badly dented, covering broken through in several places on the fuse and wings, and one grp wingtip smashed. this aircraft had a total of 25 hours flight test time in it's life,. . . even more sad. Phil What a mess to be confronted with! A very sad sight. It must have been a a ripper of a wind- those tunnel hangars are fairly streamlined, at least from the sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yenn Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Every time I have visited the UK in the past 40 years the weather has been very good. No high winds and not tooo much rain, everywhere is green and beautiful. It tempts me to want to live there, until I realise that I only visit between June and September and that the last year I did live there we had 300 rain days out of 365. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Perry Posted February 19, 2014 Author Share Posted February 19, 2014 What a mess to be confronted with! A very sad sight. It must have been a a ripper of a wind- those tunnel hangars are fairly streamlined, at least from the sides. We had reported winds of up to 108 Mph on the coastal areas, and several reports of velocities exceeding 85 mph at some locations inland, but we've had these before, and the Challenger wasn't staked down INSIDE the hangar, as it should really have been, it was built by a very good friend of mine . . who died recently, following a hip replacement op . . .he didn't take enough warfarin to keep the blood thinned out, and as a result, had a blood clot in one lung and this finished him off. . . .extremely sad, as it had taken him seven years to build that plane,. . . .and finish it's 25 hour testing sequence. It will now need stripping and a very close inspection to see what was bent or shock loaded and this is going to take time and a lot of funds. . . . the current owner, ( owned half of the project ) is going to have a big spend on tis one, I can't understand why he didn't at least have some ground risk insurance, . . . but he didn't. . . . . I was one of the bods who built that hangar for the X'Air syndicate some twelve years ago to my own personal design. . . I built a solid steel tube framework at each end of the tunnel, out of 75mm square steel tube, 3mm wall thickness, this was sunk 1 metre into concrete to make sure that hangar would not "Lift off" and to sustain the weight of the steel framed double Bi-Fold doors, . . .made from 25mil square tube frame skinned with aluminium sheeting of AIRCRAFT QUALITY. . .(?) this was purloined from the Boulton and Paul Aircraft Museum society, who had dozens of these sheets, 8ft x 4ft ( 2440 x 1220mm for you guys with French measurements. . .) rivetted to the frame and secured with very large hinge units. These end frames were secured to the end hoops with 8mm allthread in five places at each end, so that the only weak part was the "Visiqueen" plastic covering material, which had survived everything the weather could throw at it. since 2004. I suggested replacing this with steel cladding, but this was rejected by the owners of the "Other End" of the hangar, who reckoned that is was an unnecessary expense. . . . I sold my X'Air share 2 years ago, but still feel a bit "Attached" since I was the hangar builder. . . . .Still. . .life goes on, and the X'Air lives. . . . (albeit with no roof on it's little 20 metre x 9 metre house. . . . !) I've heard from a couple of local strips that a PA28, a Vans RV4, a Europa, Three trikes, an Evans VP1 volksplane and a couple of other microlighttypes were either destroyed or severely damaged during the gales. . . . .YEP. . . it's been quite a winter, and we have had no SNOW yet. . . . ! This time last year, I was digging the driveway out of a metre of the stuff so that I could get my car out onto the road. I did this one morning, it took me an hour,. . . . I went back into the hovel to get dry and have a cup of hot coffee, and when I'd thawed out and went outside again a half hour later, a bloody snow plough had been down the street and left a one and a half metre berm of compacted snow right across the damned driveway. . . . . . Did I utter a single swearword ??? of COURSE not. . . .I don't even rubbish people who disagree with my ideas on climate change either, ( dunno where some folks get these ideas from . . .) Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 we all love the Englishman's stiff upper lip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Soldier on, Phil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Perry Posted February 19, 2014 Author Share Posted February 19, 2014 Every time I have visited the UK in the past 40 years the weather has been very good. No high winds and not tooo much rain, everywhere is green and beautiful. It tempts me to want to live there, until I realise that I only visit between June and September and that the last year I did live there we had 300 rain days out of 365. Yenn,. . . .I have to be really honest here, ( I try to be that most of the time mind you. . .) If it hadn't been for a severe problem in my Wife's family,. . . .then I would never have left Australia in 1982. . . . .I'd never had it so good,. . .OK , you have to do some hard yakka, but the rewards were there if you did. I regret most severely not telling the missus to get on with it and come back when she was sorted. . . . . bit late now though,. . . I'm 63 and on the knackers yard list,. . . I keep hiding when I hear the cart coming up the street. . . . but the main thing for me is that I'd much rather be broke in a nice warm country than here in one that's windy / flooded and / or bloody freezing for most of the time. . . . . !!! My Daughter Rachel has never really forgiven me for dragging her back from OZ, when she was only four months old ! ! ! anyway, I've reminded her that since she has Australian birthright, she can go home and work in an airport . . . .she works for a major city council at the moment in traffic management, but I'm SURE she would prefer to work in an Australian airport in immigration control. . . . ! She absolutely loves that TV show you have on the subject. . . . . Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Perry Posted February 19, 2014 Author Share Posted February 19, 2014 we all love the Englishman's stiff upper lip Gotta keep the upper one stiff FT,. . . . .I was head-butted by a bloke a few years ago and it wrecked all of my top row of teeth. . .it wasn't helped by the fact that the guy was wearing a Ford Focus 1.6 at the time, travelling at around forty mph ( approx 69 kph ) and this caused me and my Daughter to leave the room via the front windscreen, even though we were both wearing seatbelts. The FOCUS, . . .if this type Isn't marketed in Australia, is shaped a bit like a wedge of cheese, and it went underneath my van and damaged the floor pan,. . and hence the bottom seat belt attachment points were damaged and the airbags didn't work. . . . this was in 2009, and I only had a minimal payout from the insurance company in November, insufficient to cover several dental implants. My dentist said, "Keep a stiff upper lip lad" and noone will ever know, . . .except me, as I have to quietly chew my steak on the one side, and then turn it over to chew the other. . . . . But, HEY,. . . thanks for the advice mate.. . . . . much appreciated. Keeping it stiff hides the fact that the upper gnashers are missing. . . . Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 I wouldn't eat English meat, mad cow/foot & mouth country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Perry Posted February 19, 2014 Author Share Posted February 19, 2014 I wouldn't eat English meat, mad cow/foot & mouth country. I wouldn't want to beef with you about that. . . . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yenn Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 By what I have seen of England there can't be much beef about. You hardly see livestock in the fields and the locals are very wary of the disease. When I lived there in the 50's there were cattle everywhere there was grass. It seems the farmers are paid to keep the countryside looking good for tourism and looking after livestock is not profitable. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnarly Gnu Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 English mad cows are awesome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Perry Posted February 21, 2014 Author Share Posted February 21, 2014 I wouldn't eat English meat, mad cow/foot & mouth country. Hey FT, don't get serious about meat mate. . . .that was just a joke, . . . and I have absolutely NO intention of diverging into a discussion regarding the relative merits of English or any other kind of Meat Mate. . . . In point of actual fact, I don't really lose a great deal of sleep worrying about what other people eat or don't eat. . . . . in fact I really don't mind if you eat bison bollix with salted chilli and Gruyere with a nice white wine and garlic truffle sauce,. . . .if that's what you like. ( I wouldn't mind the recipe though,. . .my next door neighbour is training to be a French Chef, so that one would really get him going. . . . ) But,. . .obviously you wouldn't want to use English bison bollix due to the apparent risk of the UK bovine ailment first hereinbefore referenced in your recent statement. . . . Phil x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horsefeathers Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Hey FT, don't get serious about meat mate. . . .that was just a joke, . . . Phil x ah Phil, don't worry to much about FT. He was only put on this earth to troll internet forums......... Personally, I could eat his liver with some fava beans and a nice chianti. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Perry Posted February 21, 2014 Author Share Posted February 21, 2014 ah Phil, don't worry to much about FT.He was only put on this earth to troll internet forums......... Personally, I could eat his liver with some fava beans and a nice chianti. Ahhhhhhh. . . .a RED wine man after me own heart. . . . . . Odd you should say that though, . . the scuttlebut is that FT is a really great bloke when you meet him in person at a flying event,. . . but I'm a bit too far away to do that at the moment regrettably. They tell me that human liver is very tasty but a little rich,. . . . personally have not tried it yet. . . . . does the Chianti mellow it a little I wonder ? ? ? ? and is it best eaten raw or sauteed on a high heat in a little butter with a few challottes ? I have to draw the line at the fava beans, as the last time I tried a portion, I was breaking wind uncontrollably for at least a fartnight. . . . Phil 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horsefeathers Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Ahhhhhhh. . . .a RED wine man after me own heart. . . . . . Odd you should say that though, . . the scuttlebut is that FT is a really great bloke when you meet him in person at a flying event,. . . but I'm a bit too far away to do that at the moment regrettably.They tell me that human liver is very tasty but a little rich,. . . . personally have not tried it yet. . . . . does the Chianti mellow it a little I wonder ? ? ? ? and is it best eaten raw or sauteed on a high heat in a little butter with a few challottes ? Phil raw, Phil - its best RAW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Perry Posted February 21, 2014 Author Share Posted February 21, 2014 Better re-read that . . .you overtook my edit. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 Phil, the only relief about mad cow is you are so crazed by it you don't know you have it. Foot and mouth doesn't sound like fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnarly Gnu Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 "you are so crazed by it you don't know you have it" Now who would that make me think of...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Perry Posted February 22, 2014 Author Share Posted February 22, 2014 Phil, the only relief about mad cow is you are so crazed by it you don't know you have it. Foot and mouth doesn't sound like fun. Can I just clear up a slight anomaly with FT’s last posting,. . . . Dear FT. . . you have mentioned TWO separate and very different conditions in your “One liner” which, incidentally made no sense whatsoever in context with the flow of the posts. . . . Foot and mouth disease has broken out over the last few decades in the UK ( and in a lot of other countries )and although extremely infectious, is not fatal to healthy beasts, but the current Govt. policy here in the UK is to immediately slaughter any animal displaying the symptoms. Bit like using a battlefield nuclear warhead to shoot down a Jabiru really. . . . . but it does highlight the stupidity of the asswipes who run DEFRA ( the agricultural department of complete mismanagement ) in this country. Mad Cow Disease, ( Bovine Spongiform Encepalopathy ) is a disease of the brain, caused by a protein pryon making a severely infected animal unable to control it’s own motor functions, and fall over, with death following in a short time. . . it is, at the moment incurable.. This disease was caused by pure human greed / stupidity, ie, feeding cattle using feeds made from contaminated ground up sheep and cow brains mixed with other offal from other dead animals, which were ( allegedly) already affected with the condition. These are two VERY DIFFERENT diseases FT . . . . Just thought you might like to know. And what the flook this has got to do with the thread, . . . is anybody’s guess. . . . . Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man emu Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 You could always pop down to ASDA and get a nice French-made cottage pie. Might leave you a little horse, though! OME Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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