Earl Pike Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 I was in Bright in NE victoria recently, when returning to Bright through Myrleford I picked up a para glider with all his gear. For those who may not know, Bright is a Meccca for para gliders and hang gliders. I asked how far he had gone, and he replied that he was not sure, he launched at Bright, and as he had no recording device, could not tell, but indicated that he had flown over a swamp before he turned back towards Bright, landing in Glerowan, I take the swamp to be Lake Makoan, now Winton wetlands. He did however, say that he had reached 2600 metres. It was busy weekend for air traffic, a couple of planes at Porpunka, including an RV9, a Jab 230 and trikes, and a Warrior and Cessna 172 at Brown Bros, both of which he would have flown over. The para glider's route would also have taken him through the training areas for both Wangaratta and Bennalla, So I asked how he kept in touch with the traffic, did he monitor the area CTAF? He seemed a bit confused, so I explained what it was, he said no, that he kept in touch with other gliders on discrete UHF channel, and that he had seen a number of powered aircraft. I nearly ran off the road, not only was he in a high potential traffic area, but his altitude would be getting very close the step into Albury, and he did not display any concern. From what I have learned this is standard operation for this type of aircraft, although I did mention Oz Runways to him, so at least he could see where he has been. So a word of advice, if you fly into Porpunka, get there before 10 am, particularly on warm days, as after that you will be fighting for air space with oblivious gliders. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PA. Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Are Para Gliders, Paraplegics that can still walk? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmccarthy Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Do paramedics jump out of aeroplanes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ozzie Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 OCTA, VFR, see and be seen, radios not mandatory. As long as he stays out of CTA he can go where he wants and traffic is traffic. He stated he saw some powered aircraft so WHATS THE PROBLEM? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keenaviator Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 I was in Bright in NE victoria recently, when returning to Bright through Myrleford I picked up a para glider with all his gear. For those who may not know, Bright is a Meccca for para gliders and hang gliders.I asked how far he had gone, and he replied that he was not sure, he launched at Bright, and as he had no recording device, could not tell, but indicated that he had flown over a swamp before he turned back towards Bright, landing in Glerowan, I take the swamp to be Lake Makoan, now Winton wetlands. He did however, say that he had reached 2600 metres. It was busy weekend for air traffic, a couple of planes at Porpunka, including an RV9, a Jab 230 and trikes, and a Warrior and Cessna 172 at Brown Bros, both of which he would have flown over. The para glider's route would also have taken him through the training areas for both Wangaratta and Bennalla, So I asked how he kept in touch with the traffic, did he monitor the area CTAF? He seemed a bit confused, so I explained what it was, he said no, that he kept in touch with other gliders on discrete UHF channel, and that he had seen a number of powered aircraft. I nearly ran off the road, not only was he in a high potential traffic area, but his altitude would be getting very close the step into Albury, and he did not display any concern. From what I have learned this is standard operation for this type of aircraft, although I did mention Oz Runways to him, so at least he could see where he has been. So a word of advice, if you fly into Porpunka, get there before 10 am, particularly on warm days, as after that you will be fighting for air space with oblivious gliders. Earl, do you mind if I forward this to the HGFA? I too am a paraglider pilot and this subject is something that has really annoyed me for quite some time. When flying cross country as this fellow did we are supposed to carry and monitor VHF set to the appropriate frequency. The HGFA also have allotted frequencies on VHF which can be used by HGFA pilots (paragliders, hang gliders, microlights/trikes) to keep in touch with each other. This practice of using UHF CB to communicate is unacceptable. The argument usually given is that you can't use VHF to communicate with retrieve drivers - I can't see why the allotted HGFA VHF frequencies couldn't be used for this purpose. We are all pilots using the same airspace, sometimes near controlled airspace - we should be ensuring we can communicate with all other airspace users. Another practice that is very common to paraglider pilots and really gets my goat is that they insist on using metres to described their altitude. The standard unit of measure for altitude is feet (metres for horizontal distance and runway length). 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ozzie Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Just checked with the Stanwell club and no mandatory use of a VHF radio needed, only required in CTA. Like in an area like Manila and then entering Tamworth's CTA. Same rules for them as per us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earl Pike Posted March 17, 2015 Author Share Posted March 17, 2015 Keenaviator, That' OK, apart from his name, Bob, I can't give you any more info about club/school etc. With regard to VFR rules seen and be seen, paragliders are very difficult to see against a coloured background from the air looking down, as they are usually multicoloured and stationary. They may be able to see aircraft, but their ability to "get out of the way" is limited. I am not denying their right to fly, it is just that when there are 30 to40 in a small area of sky, it can be intimidating if a pilot is unsure of where they are or going. With regards to the practice of using metres, it was not until I did the conversion a to feet, that I released how high he had gone. PS Porpunka should be spelt Porepunka, my error. A picturesque grass strip, close to wineries, excellent restaurants and accommodation, in a valley blessed with excellent weather. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keenaviator Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Keenaviator,PS Porpunka should be spelt Porepunka, my error. A picturesque grass strip, close to wineries, excellent restaurants and accommodation, in a valley blessed with excellent weather. Or even Porepunkah :) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earl Pike Posted March 17, 2015 Author Share Posted March 17, 2015 It's a bugger Australian place names are not on spell check.!! I will have to get a new editor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ozzie Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 German girl holds the height gain record at Manilla of 10,000mts. (FL330) Shame she slept thru it. As they are unpowered then maybe the onus is on the powered aircraft to take the action. Pretty much the rule anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacesailor Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Ozzie, the girl you spoke of nearly died and I believe two others did die, after they were swept up in a thunder-storm. spacesailor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ozzie Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Yes, i know the whole story. She lived, suffered some frostbite, the other was a Chinese pilot who was hit by lightening in the same cell, he died. No one else involved. Ewa still holds the record. Shame the other pilot was killed but these things happen when you push the limits. Chances are if you saw only one para glider then you missed all the rest. If you think they are hard to see then have a look at the frontal profile of a hang glider. even harder to see. Chances are you missed the hang gliders using the same thermals. If you regularly fly in the areas marked on your charts with the HG symbol then you should make yourself aware of how far and in what directions in certain conditions they range. Poor Bob was probably humming along after a great out bound flight and along with the lift back gets a lecture from a weekend warrior to spoil the day. Oh, if you think you got a problem with twenty or thirty in a small area, go to Europe. I lost count after 140 in one thermal i was in in Italy. Try weaving your way around that lot on the way to the top. Scusi coming thru. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Ozzie, the girl you spoke of nearly died and I believe two others did die, after they were swept up in a thunder-storm.spacesailor There is quite a good documentary about that incident: On the original point Earl, you seem upset that that the guy was doing what he was doing. He was outside the Albury controlled airspace and keeping a lookout. He didnt have a radio but isnt required to have one. Why the problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howard Hughes Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 OCTA, VFR, see and be seen, radios not mandatory. As long as he stays out of CTA he can go where he wants and traffic is traffic. He stated he saw some powered aircraft so WHATS THE PROBLEM? The problem is did they see him? Given that power must give way to glider... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDQDI Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 I would have thought the main problem was the lack of knowledge of his whereabouts. I don't mind the no radio thing after all it is nice and simple paragliding but surely it's not too hard to know where you are and how far from CTA you are? I've seen them travel over home after jumping from Manilla and one I saw seemed pretty high (no CTA issues just here). At the time I actually rang them up to ask about a tif as it sparked my interest:thumb up:, I haven't been up to do it yet (lack of time and money) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 The lower limit of the Albury CTA is 8500 east of Punka. They often land out that way. A RPT wouldn't expect to get a windscreen full of parachute while still in the CTA, so the avoidance issue is academic.. We all should know the limits of the airspace we operate in. See and be seen is not a guarantee of anything much so the maximum vigilance is warranted. I mixed it with the chutes in that area one day and knew they would be there, but I had to keep my eyes peeled for sure. I think I would prefer to avoid the area where they operate. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earl Pike Posted March 19, 2015 Author Share Posted March 19, 2015 Some readers seem to think I am upset or have have a problem with sharing airspace, I don't and as for being a weekend warrior all to ready to admonish, I am not and I didn't. How could any one have a go a someone who was so excited about what he had just achieved, 4.5 hours in the air and about 110 ks without power. I was just a bit surprised about how unaware some gliders are of other air users. I know it is see and be seen, gliders have the right of way, and radios are not mandatory, but it is good to know where you are where you have been, and the proximity of other air users. And there is compact light weight technology that allows this. All part of RAA training. I with Nev, on warm days with thermals about, keep away from the areas on your charts marked with a little glider. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Thanks Earl. they were all up at the max height pretty much on that day and were obviously aware ot the CTA On another matter.There are a lot of POWERED chutes in the Territory. It's so easy to just pull up strap it on and see amazing parts of the remote areas. Must be close to the ultimate freedom machine. Low level capable too. The give way to gliders is more applicable to the landing phase. I would think the normal avoidance rules would still apply everywhere else. A glider is pretty manouverable, so it's available to do it. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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