ATC Question Thread

[shags_j]

Hi all! Was due to have my first lesson flying in controlled airspace at Coffs harbour yesterday whilst on holiday but it got cancelled due to weather. Had a few questions I was going to ask the instructor so ill have to ask you guys instead:)i) Looking at the coffs harbour ERSA and VTC. How can you tell if the class D/Class C surrounding airspace has radar coverage or not?

 

ii) Also, what sort of departure report would you give operating out of this airport? Would it be different if you were departing into Class C as opposed to class D or class G? At metro class D airports like camden no departure report is required so Im a little confused.

 

Thanks, Rich

RJW: lots of ifs here.

 

i) we have radar for center from a040 and up. The tower has radar for situational awareness only, not for seperation.

 

ii) depends on ifr, vfr, tower open ornot. Best to discuss this with your instructor.

 

Good luck

 

 

[DrZoos]

Hi all! Was due to have my first lesson flying in controlled airspace at Coffs harbour yesterday whilst on holiday but it got cancelled due to weather. Had a few questions I was going to ask the instructor so ill have to ask you guys instead:)i) Looking at the coffs harbour ERSA and VTC. How can you tell if the class D/Class C surrounding airspace has radar coverage or not?

 

ii) Also, what sort of departure report would you give operating out of this airport? Would it be different if you were departing into Class C as opposed to class D or class G? At metro class D airports like camden no departure report is required so Im a little confused.

 

Thanks, Rich

The guys in the Coffs Tower are not very busy most the time, they are very helpful...simply use procedures as trained and they will be good. Or phone them up and ask.

 

 

[shags_j]

The guys in the Coffs Tower are not very busy most the time, they are very helpful...simply use procedures as trained and they will be good. Or phone them up and ask.

+1

 

 

[Flying Kiwi]

Hi,

 

Question, you've picked up flight following from Brisbane Centre and your planning to transit the restricted area west of Williamstown. When time comes to seek clearance do you call Brisbane as they have already provided a squawk to get clearance or call up Willy Delivery as you would normally do.

 

 

[ian00798]

Hi,Question, you've picked up flight following from Brisbane Centre and your planning to transit the restricted area west of Williamstown. When time comes to seek clearance do you call Brisbane as they have already provided a squawk to get clearance or call up Willy Delivery as you would normally do.

If your already subject to a flight following, ATC will direct your frequency transfer approaching the airspace boundary, i.e. ABC contact Willy centre on 133.3 expect clearance. When your getting a flight following you really shouldn't just change frequencies without telling ATC. If you are getting close to the controlled airspace boundary and haven't been transferred just give ATC a friendly reminder.

 

 

[Yenn]

I recently saw a notam about using area frequency, when operating at a strip that is not shown on the charts.

 

My local strip is in this situation and I use 119.55, but at times it is impossible to broadcast without interfering with airline traffic.

 

I know CASA is going to study this problem, but do any of you controller have a preferred method of calling, such as the same as for CTAFs or whatever they are now called?

 

I know it won't make the airway always available, but it would be good to use the correct procedure without causing problems for centre controllers.

 

 

[nathan_c]

You should do your calls just as if we weren't listening, I.e as if you were in a ctaf. Just keep it short and concise because the last thing we want is a long rambling non standard call as that's when you will tie up a frequency, not with a short sharp circuit call.

 

 

[ian00798]

Exactly what Nathan said. The calls are definitely irritating as a controller especially when we are busy, but ultimately that is the rule and I won't have a go at any pilot for following it. Just keep the calls as short and concise as you possibly can and use a bit of airmanship, if you can hear the controller is excessively busy and the frequency is congested try and save the call for a better time.

 

 

[Yenn]

Thanks. That is what I thought, but it makes the frequency useless for safety purposes at my type of airstrip when there is no available space for the whole of downwind for example. That happened to me recently.

 

 

[dsam]

RE: Announced Airservices layoffs & impact on ATC?

 

Anyone care to comment on how badly this will impact on aviators? I'm sure it is awful for Airservices staff (particularly those about to lose their jobs), but lousy for staff that remain having to take up the shortfall.

 

Spokesmen to the media insist there is no threat to ATC ops & safety.... but they would say that wouldn't they.... Anybody care to tell us the real story from an insider's perspective?

 

 

[rhysmcc]

And risk losing our job? The statement is pretty much on the mark, back office jobs a lot which didn't exist 5 or so years ago. The sky isn't falling.

 

 

[ian00798]

Airservices statement on recent ABC coverage

 

This is pretty accurate, basically as per what Rhys said. Controllers will continue to provide pilots the same service they have always received.

 

 

[dsam]

Thanks for that prompt feedback guys. Sounds good.

 

It must be the cynical times we live in when a statement to the media sends me looking for something more sinister... I mustn't be so suspicious.

 

That being said, there aren't many organisations these days that can lose that many staff (a big percentage too), and still carry on so well! That raises other questions... but then here I go getting suspicious again

 

 

[facthunter]

Can't see how it can improve safety to have less staff. Has the system been more digitised? and self checking.? I doubt it.. Nev

 

 

[rhysmcc]

More money to spend on other things?

 

 

[Chocolate]

Exactly what Nathan said. The calls are definitely irritating as a controller especially when we are busy, but ultimately that is the rule and I won't have a go at any pilot for following it. Just keep the calls as short and concise as you possibly can and use a bit of airmanship, if you can hear the controller is excessively busy and the frequency is congested try and save the call for a better time.

That's the nub of the problem. Being up on the great divide in a bit of a valley I can't hear you when on the ground making my call. So I am more than likely interfering in radio traffic when making a call. Sorry.

 

 

[ian00798]

The good news is if you can't hear us there's a good chance we can't hear you so your probably not bothering anyone. Our transmitters are a lot more powerful than yours.

 

 

[ben87r]

The good news is if you can't hear us there's a good chance we can't hear you so your probably not bothering anyone. Our transmitters are a lot more powerful than yours.

Everyone in the area can tho Ian. Gets rather annoying waiting for a taxi/traffic/departure etc and having centre stepped on. No fault of anyone but annoying

 

 

[ian00798]

Yeah that is true, it will annoy the other aircraft in the area. I absolutely agree it's a poor system and I don't know why they chose that way, but I guess we have to comply with the rules

 

 

[coljones]

The good news is if you can't hear us there's a good chance we can't hear you so your probably not bothering anyone. Our transmitters are a lot more powerful than yours.

But hopefully the other plane flying along, up the creek, at 1000ft (or even 500), who doesn't know the other plane is there, will hear the calls and either divert or call and identify with intentions.

 

 

[ian00798]

Seems there could be a different frequency for that though instead of the one where someone may be trying to issue a control instruction to stop 2 passenger jets closing at 1.5 times the speed of sound possibly in cloud from trying to hit each other.

 

 

[coljones]

Seems there could be a different frequency for that though instead of the one where someone may be trying to issue a control instruction to stop 2 passenger jets closing at 1.5 times the speed of sound possibly in cloud from trying to hit each other.

That's why the big birds have all that TSO stuff, ADSB, and other majik IFF and avoidance stuff. Maybe some of the area frequencies could be decoupled and/or have more boundaries. 124.55 and the other metro areas probably have too big an area. Out beyond the sandstone curtain area frequencies are very quiet. Actually 124.55 isn't too bad. YSBK is worse, especially when arrival, departures and circuits all get coupled together even though they are on different frequencies. I don't listen into the Mascot transmissions so I don't know how busy that gets.

 

 

[ben87r]

Im 1500nm from Sydney and Centre is always busy. Not sure what TSO equipment has to do with air traffic control and ADSB still relies on VHF but to reverse the role there why should I as an RPT AC in CTA be put in a situation where we start relying on a safety net to ensure separation so a C1XX can make his 5th call in an empty circuit?

 

There wasn't anything wrong to fix with this rule.

 

 

[ian00798]

Yeah I think the reference there was more to TCAS, which is a brilliant system, but once again not flawless. It's really the last line of defence, not what we should be relying on to make up for a bad rule.

 

 

[coljones]

Yeah I think the reference there was more to TCAS, which is a brilliant system, but once again not flawless. It's really the last line of defence, not what we should be relying on to make up for a bad rule.

Do you have a superior solution for "a bad rule"