Gnarly Gnu Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 " [/url]When you first sit in the cockpit [/url]of an electric-powered airplane, you see nothing out of the ordinary. However, touch the Start button and it strikes you immediately: an eerie silence. There is no roar, no engine vibration, just the hum of electricity and the soft whoosh of the propeller. You can converse easily with the person in the next seat, without headphones. The silence is a boon to both those in the cockpit and those on the ground below. You rev the motor not with a throttle but a rheostat, and its high torque, available over a magnificently wide band of motor speeds, is conveyed to the propeller directly, with no power-sapping transmission. At 20 kilograms (45 pounds), the motor can be held in two hands, and it measures only 10 centimeters deep and 30 cm in diameter. An equivalent internal-combustion engine weighs about seven times as much and occupies some 120 by 90 by 90 cm. In part because of the motor’s wonderful efficiency—it turns 95 percent of its electrical energy directly into work—an hour’s flight in this electric plane consumes just US $3 worth of electricity, versus $40 worth of gasoline in a single-engine airplane. With one moving part in the electric motor, e-planes also cost less to maintain and, in the two-seater category, less to buy in the first place. It’s the cost advantage, even more than the silent operation, that is most striking to a professional pilot. Flying is an expensive business. And, as technologists have shown time and again, if you bring down the cost of a product dramatically, you effectively create an entirely new product. Look no further than the $300 supercomputer in your pocket. At my company, Bye Aerospace, in Englewood, Colo., we have designed and built a two-seat aircraft called the Sun Flyer that runs on electricity alone. We expect to fly the plane, with the specs described above, later this year. We designed the aircraft for the niche application of pilot training, where the inability to carry a heavy payload or fly for more than 3 hours straight is not a problem and where cost is a major factor....." Great! Except that $3 of electricity in the US would be about $15 here (no joke, in the sad-ass mendicant state I dwell it is literally 5x the price per kWh of some US states). But as batteries improve these aircraft will look more promising, range and recharge time would be a worry at this point. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bexrbetter Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 an hour’s flight in this electric plane consumes just US $3 worth of electricity, versus $40 worth of gasoline in a single-engine airplane. I live with electric cars daily, electricity is cheap as chips in China, as all essentials should be, and there's no way it's 3:40 ratio even here. More like 1/4 to a 1/3 cruising, and closer to 1/2 or more when your hitting it as you need to do in a plane. Then there's the hassle, and it is a hassle, of topping up almost daily at specified points, you don't just drive down the road and see a charging station as you do a petrol station. People need to consider that they are going to need serious planning constantly and that in less than an hour's flight you will be staring at 2 to 6 hours recharge time somewhere, I don't care what crap they are advertising otherwsie. I love my electric cars (getting a new one for longer range next week), the upsides just outweigh the downsides, but those upsides are sweet, but not going to tolerate complete nonsense in promotion about them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnarly Gnu Posted August 24, 2017 Author Share Posted August 24, 2017 I live with electric cars daily, electricity is cheap as chips in China An electric car is a coal powered car. In most instances. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bexrbetter Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 An electric car is a coal powered car. In most instances. Except I live just near one of the world's largest hydro electric power sources. They've just started on the new one too ... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_d Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 An electric car is a coal powered car. In most instances. Not here, they'd be 100% renewable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onetrack Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 In my state (W.A.), 2550MW of our electricity comes from coal, over 4400MW comes from natural gas, about 400MW comes from windpower, and about another 300MW comes from an assortment of IC engines powered by gas, and a bit of solar. We just also happen to possess the worlds second-largest NG reserves (the NW Shelf of W.A.), with those reserves apparently capable of supplying the worlds current needs for about 250 years. We have the ability with current infrastructure, to install re-charging stations over nearly all of the State - most certainly all those areas serviced by roads - and supply adequate power for re-charging a couple of million vehicles. The W.A. RAC has already installed charging stations for electric vehicles all the way down the South coast from Perth. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Pukallus Posted September 11, 2017 Share Posted September 11, 2017 Here's a charging station in the city centre of Nuremberg connected to a Tesla vehicle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bexrbetter Posted September 11, 2017 Share Posted September 11, 2017 Here's a charging station in the city centre of Nuremberg connected to a Tesla vehicle. What an A-hole. Not an excuse at all, but I bet there's a petrol car parked in the "Tesla Charging Only" carpark, ask me how I know ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_d Posted September 11, 2017 Share Posted September 11, 2017 I bet there's a petrol car parked in the "Tesla Charging Only" carpark... Well HE should be charged... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffreywh Posted September 11, 2017 Share Posted September 11, 2017 Looks like the maintenance shedule for an electric aeroplane could be written on a sheet of toilet paper....Probably need a laptop too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bexrbetter Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 Well HE should be charged... Watt for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onetrack Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 Watt for? Because if he doesn't move quickly, he'll be in for a shock? (speaking as one who has experienced gun-toting, European parking inspectors!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_d Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 Watt for? 'Cause he's at volt. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yenn Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 Like all new technology the hype is full bore. I would like to have an electric car, but my big fear is not having problems re charging it is battery life. My experience is that batteries never last as long as advertised and the higher the technology, the greater the difference. For example lead acid batteries last fairly well, but the Odyssey batteries never last as long as advertised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_d Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 Like all new technology the hype is full bore. I would like to have an electric car, but my big fear is not having problems re charging it is battery life. My experience is that batteries never last as long as advertised and the higher the technology, the greater the difference. For example lead acid batteries last fairly well, but the Odyssey batteries never last as long as advertised. I was talking to my mechanic yesterday, whose son is looking at one of the "affordable" Tesla model 3's- around $44,000 I think. Looking at their website, appears that battery has an 8 year / 100,000 MILE warranty. He said that their dealership in Australia is - wait for it - Myers! Apparently Myers in Melbourne has them up on the 6th floor, they have a special car elevator. Guess it makes sense, they sell other electrical goods too. Model 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onetrack Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 There will be a whole new business model arise from electric technology - the battery swapping business. Just as you cheerfully swap your BBQ gas bottle today, for a full, exchange unit, ready to go - in exactly the same way, in the new electric power era, you will pull into a battery servo, and swap your flat battery for a fully-recharged exchange battery. There will have to be terms and limits on the condition of swappable batteries, of course - just as there are limits on the condition of the LPG bottle you supply for gas bottle exchange. In this manner, the normal wait for full battery recharge will be overcome. It will require a substantial degree of standardisation across manufacturers to be introduced, to ensure that a standard type and design of battery is utilised, and that it can be easily and quickly removed and replaced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_d Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 There will be a whole new business model arise from electric technology - the battery swapping business.Just as you cheerfully swap your BBQ gas bottle today, for a full, exchange unit, ready to go - in exactly the same way, in the new electric power era, you will pull into a battery servo, and swap your flat battery for a fully-recharged exchange battery. There will have to be terms and limits on the condition of swappable batteries, of course - just as there are limits on the condition of the LPG bottle you supply for gas bottle exchange. In this manner, the normal wait for full battery recharge will be overcome. It will require a substantial degree of standardisation across manufacturers to be introduced, to ensure that a standard type and design of battery is utilised, and that it can be easily and quickly removed and replaced. Might be difficult as I believe the Tesla batteries are made to fit the shape of the floorpan for balance & load distribution. (May be wrong there!) If that is the case it may be an even bigger change in that you never truly own your car, but have it as a long term lease so if there's any problems you just swap the whole car. If you consider capital loss, maintenance costs etc then it may still make financial sense. There could be a variety of cost structures depending on whether you want a brand new car every year, or happy to have reconditioned 2-5 year old cars, etc. Could even prove a shake-up for the insurance industry as the fleet providers could self-insure as part of the cost breakdown - which may be no bad thing! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onetrack Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 It's highly likely that permanent, individual, car, truck and aircraft ownership as we know it, will cease in the next couple of decades, and be replaced by a "hire as required", use arrangement. I do that now when on holiday in distant regions, and so do many others. Where many people, particularly 4WD owners, invest anything up to $80K or $100K into their vehicle (and often another $20K or $30K on "vital" accessories) - then drive across Australia to their holiday destination - I prefer to fly there, and hire the vehicle of my choice to get around on the ground. It's just simply good economics, less tiring, less dangerous, and gives you more time to relax. The same applies as regards accommodation. People spend anywhere between $20K and $100K on caravans for holidaying, then spend vast sums on fuel dragging these monsters around the country, annoying other road users, and incurring major caravan upkeep costs, in the form of repairs and maintenance, registration, depreciation, and storage hassles - all for 2 to 4 weeks holidaying each year? When travelling, I prefer to select from a choice of accommodation that can range from AirBnB, comfortable little Bed/N/Breakfasts, Farmstay, Motels, up to 4 star Hotels - and which, in the final washup, costs no more annually, than owning and hauling a caravan around the country. I can see a time where electric aircraft would possibly become just another casual hire market, at much cheaper cost than owning your own aircraft. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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