Terrier T200 elevator balance shot placement information

[Blueadventures]

Has any member had experience with the balance shot in the elevator.  I looked at a nice Terrier T200 yesterday and moving the starboard elevator up and down you can hear the balance shot rolling inside.  No mention of how it is installed in the paperwork the new owner had.  He recently bought it at Jindabyne did 3 hours there with CFI and 13 hours trip home so it flew nice for the 16 hours.   He had spoken to the factory pre purchase and he is going to contact him again this week so hopefully he gets some good assistance.  I recommended inviting the factory contact out to view the aircraft and buy a couple of spare parts he will need soon (eg brake pads, a bolt for wing strut (correct length, etc) and arrange sorting of the loose balance shot.  Hopefully the factory owner will sort as the aircraft  is very nice and a flying example in the local area as the factory is only about 30 minutes away. 

Edited Sunday at 12:03 AM by Blueadventures

[facthunter]

I don't think you want STUFF rattling around. A balance weight is Normally  a solid thing, firmly attached to function properly.  Nev

[onetrack]

I'd have to opine whatever originally held the shot in place has degraded to the point where the shot has become loose - an undesirable situation, I'd imagine.

On the Vans aircraft, balance shot is held in place by epoxy. Perhaps this was also the case originally on the Terrier, but the epoxy has degraded with heat and aging, to the point where it let all the shot loose? Or perhaps there was a container of some type for the shot, that broke open?

[Thruster88]

Probably have to drill a hole in the side of the control horn and have a look in there with a borescope. Shake some shot out and put some runny epoxy in there.

[skippydiesel]

28 minutes ago, Thruster88 said:

Probably have to drill a hole in the side of the control horn and have a look in there with a borescope. Shake some shot out and put some runny epoxy in there.

OR dismantle the elevator ends

• Remove shot & carefully weigh & records the weight.
• Make a  female mold  of the shape/size of weight to put into/onto the horn-  at a pinch you can use wood, might be better with something like cement. Almost any shape able/mouldable material that will temporarily stand up to molten lead will be suitable.
• Melt lead  (add a little extra) in any old saucepans/tin that you can hold over a flame (wood/gas)
• Pour molten lead into mould - will "set" within a minute or two.
• When you have two cool shaped lead weights - adjust weight by shaving or drilling to correct weight as advised by kit manufactures or as per original removed weight.
• Refit/attach weights to elevator.
• Refit elevator
• Go fly

NOTE: Making a "solid" weight out of shot, using epoxy, will result in a change of mass - you will need to adjust accordingly.

😈

 

[facthunter]

Bit dicey mucking around with Molten lead. Buy a  LEAD strip say 3 x  80 MM and fold it  to a convenient size and drill holes in it for securing. The damping doesn't work if it's not fixed in one spot . The right mass and the right distance from the Hinge axis with no FLEXING of the structure.  Nev

[Thruster88]

39 minutes ago, skippydiesel said:

OR dismantle the elevator ends

• Remove shot & carefully weigh & records the weight.
• Make a  female mold  of the shape/size of weight to put into/onto the horn-  at a pinch you can use wood, might be better with something like cement. Almost any shape able/mouldable material that will temporarily stand up to molten lead will be suitable.
• Melt lead  (add a little extra) in any old saucepans/tin that you can hold over a flame (wood/gas)
• Pour molten lead into mould - will "set" within a minute or two.
• When you have two cool shaped lead weights - adjust weight by shaving or drilling to correct weight as advised by kit manufactures or as per original removed weight.
• Refit/attach weights to elevator.
• Refit elevator
• Go fly

NOTE: Making a "solid" weight out of shot, using epoxy, will result in a change of mass - you will need to adjust accordingly.

😈

 

Did you have a look at Blues vid? Doesn't look like the elevator ends are removable. Yes everything would be weighed. Start light and keep adding and checking balance. 

[skippydiesel]

57 minutes ago, Thruster88 said:

Did you have a look at Blues vid? Doesn't look like the elevator ends are removable. Yes everything would be weighed. Start light and keep adding and checking balance. 

No I hadn't - Now have.

 

Doesn't change my suggestion(s)

Loose balance (shot) seems to be a very undesirable situaton

Composite "horns" look to be waiting for careful "undressing"  - suggest inner flat can, with great care, be opened up using something like a Dremel cut off wheel (use goggles, quality dust mask & vacuum cleaner to containe as much dust as possible).

Piece removed could possibly used in "repairing" opening. 

 

I have a further thought about about "epoxy" fix - IF in fact epoxy has failed, it would be unwise to try and just fix the problem by pouring epoxy mixed with shot into a hole in elevator horn - this leaves the integrity of the "old" epoxy/shot mix in question.

Also you could still open up the horn - remove ALL old shot/epoxy and replace with fresh of same mass😈

[Thruster88]

8 minutes ago, skippydiesel said:

No I hadn't - Now have.

 

Doesn't change my suggestion(s)

Loose balance (shot) seems to be a very undesirable situaton

Composite "horns" look to be waiting for careful "undressing"  - suggest inner flat can, with great care, be opened up using something like a Dremel cut off wheel (use goggles, quality dust mask & vacuum cleaner to containe as much dust as possible).

Piece removed could possibly used in "repairing" opening. 

 

I have a further thought about about "epoxy" fix - IF in fact epoxy has failed, it would be unwise to try and just fix the problem by pouring epoxy mixed with shot into a hole in elevator horn - this leaves the integrity of the "old" epoxy/shot mix in question.

Also you could still open up the horn - remove ALL old shot/epoxy and replace with fresh of same mass😈

If you watched and LISTENED to blues vid you would know the shot was most likely never encased in epoxy. The key hole borescope may show a simple repair is possible. This area of the aircraft obviously needs very careful consideration to avoid a Rob Holland situation. 

[Blueadventures]

3 hours ago, Thruster88 said:

Probably have to drill a hole in the side of the control horn and have a look in there with a borescope. Shake some shot out and put some runny epoxy in there.

Agree that is what I would do (method to inspect and correct discussed fully with new owner); I was just doing an inspection report for the transfer of ownership.  The report it had was just out of date.  The new owner would have thought just a formality getting another but I found 4 things not compliant, so it was worth doing.  I'm happy to sort the issues and suggested he have the factory do it if they are available.  I'm not chasing work just help out.  Cheers.

Edited Sunday at 07:43 AM by Blueadventures

[skippydiesel]

3 hours ago, Thruster88 said:

If you watched and LISTENED to blues vid you would know the shot was most likely never encased in epoxy. The key hole borescope may show a simple repair is possible. This area of the aircraft obviously needs very careful consideration to avoid a Rob Holland situation. 

Not relevant - The fact remains the balance weight is moving within the elevator - not a good situaton. 

 

Balance weights are supposed to remain at a fixed distance from the hinge mechanism - if its moving in whole or part it needs fixing.

 

All I have done is suggest some possible techniques. that may achieve the repair.😈