Ben Longden Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 Just got this reply from Matthew Fleming, Aviation Security, office of Transport Security. The bottom line is that its the lease holder of the airport itself, NOT the dept who is responsible. Perhaps a deluge to them is the go. Also, anyone here a mamber of AOPA? ------------------------ Ben The lessee of Canberra Airport has put the measures you described in place at their own choosing. The government requires that airport operators meet stringent security standards, and many airport operators, as the owners of the infrastructure, decide to introduce measures above and beyond the minimum requirements, such as at Canberra Airport. I suggest you take this matter up with the airport operator, but I would also suggest doing so without first insulting them - you might get a better response. Regards Matthew Fleming Aviation Security Office of Transport Security ( 02 6274 6982 7 02 6274 7994 * [email protected] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest High Plains Drifter Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 ...I would also suggest doing so without first insulting them LOL, what caused that response Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TechMan Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 I suggest you take this matter up with the airport operator That would make more sense, as it is fairly commonly known that Mr Snow doesn't want smaller aircraft on his airport (ie GA). Unfortunately, it is his airport and he can pretty much do as he wants. A result of the Government selling off their assets for a pittance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Longden Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 LOL, what caused that response Errrr..... beats me...... What say those delayed by their actions send them a bill for an hours running costs... If they got loads of those then they surely would rethink... okay, then again... Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ozzie Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 I think that you are well within your right to send them a bill for waiting time especially if you run a business or are put out of pocket by being delayed and having to pay for motel because you could not arrive at your destination before last light ect. also he is a landlord you pays him money. you have access rights. this is not a security issue. you have an asic card. this is a access issue. place guard on gate 24 hrs a day. time to write to Rudd and have our airports brought back under federal govt control were they should be. or demand another airport built for GA use. stand up, make a few demands. or remain a pussy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest airsick Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 I like your thinking Ozzie - have you written a letter? :) A few of us have already considered writing invoices for time wasted but we doubt there will be much action on this front. Another tact I am considering is whether Canberra airport is abusing their monopoly power and restricting trade. There are some guys that use their aircraft for business purposes and they are disadvantaged by the new measures. If these time delays mean they are forced onto RPT or charter flights to get to their destination then it could be construed as a restriction of trade which favours the likes of Brindabella Airlines and Corporate Air. This is a bit of a grey area at the moment and might be a long shot. Before we can go down this road we have to clear up a few things with respect to who is enforcing the new measures, from the email above it looks like it is Canberra airport not the OTS. I have written with a few specific questions to confirm this. If it is the airport then I also have to speak to the likes of the ACCC (and I hate them!) to see if it is indeed a restriction of trade. On another note I got a response from my local member saying that a ministerial had been written to Anthony Albanese so we will wait and see where this goes. If he gets heaps of these ministerial requests then hopefully he will get the message. Keep writing!!! Lastly a protest is in order! The farmers came to Canberra last year and drove tractors to parliament house. I propose we do the same. Fill Canberra airport with Thrusters, Drifters and Jabirus and hold up the politicians when they are flying in. But before we do this we have to fit transponders to our rag and tube jobs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ozzie Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 Airsick, i have written many letters and intend to keep writing them. Peter Garrett is my Sydney MP and as he "breathed in" back in his Uni days, i will probably have to keep writing to overcome his short term memory problems. Long shots or short shots, letters, emails, phone calls, catch up with them in the street. do it whatever way you can to let them know you are not happy. As Mr Snow is not the govt, i think you wil find if everyone acts together, he will start to play ball. especially when Mr Albanese gets several hundred or thousands of complaints against Mr Snow. I think you will find that several hundred emails all sent within half an hour of each other will get some sort of response. so everybody and that includes all the 'girly skirts'. try sending an email at 9am thurday morning to Mr Albanese simply stating that you are not happy with Mr Snow. nothing else just that. if we can jam up his email that will possibly get media attention as well. many moons ago when Malcom Frazer decided to tax aviation ( yes it was all tax free flying once) a mass protest from operators was organised and there was a procession of aircraft taxied from the airport down to parliment house i remember the photo on the front page of the paper showing a cessna 402 being escorted by a police bike. so you know how it goes. 'united we stand and all that sort of sh##'' Ozzie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest airsick Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 I like the idea of an email bomb. It is simple, relatively harmless, legal and should get some attention. 9am Thursday though, does this give us enough time to organise it en mass? And should we have a standard simple message to make it really obvious what Snow is doing? Something along the lines of: Terry Snow is restricting access to Canberra airport for GA pilots. GA pilots are the lifeline of aviation in Australia and the key to addressing pilot shortages in this country. The actions of Mr Snow and people like him are putting the future of aviation in Australia at risk. These issues need to be addressed so aviation can continue to grow and provide services so important to a country like Australia where the vast distances between major centres pose unique challenges to travellers. Closing airports and restricting access to those few air fields that remain is ensuring smaller numbers of Australians will choose piloting as a career of choice. Let's stop people like Terry Snow from cutting the throat of one of Australia's most important transport links - aviation. I am up for other suggestions and edits but a simple mass email of the same repeated message ought to strike a nerve. It probably wouldn't hurt to compile a list of journos that could be included on the email list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest airsick Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 First we need to get this into the public eye as well. It is no use having a 'protest' that no one knows about so we need to compile a list of journos that we can forward these emails to. Anyone who knows the contact details of someone in the press PM me with details and I will include them in the list of recipients. Once I have compiled the list and written our stock email I will post it here so it can be forwarded on. Let's keep the ball rolling and we will aim for some time next week to actually send the email out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 Ratings. Would you consider "rating" the Journalists? (like a group in my shire rates the councillors). There may be some good ones out there... Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 3 posts have been moved from this thread to start a new thread at The Future of Aviation (moved posts) - Recreational Flying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest airsick Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 I don't think we need to. If we send it to as many as possible then it will get to the good ones. The more that hear about it the more likely it is to get some publicity. I am not sure that these journos need to be on everyones list though. No need to annoy them, just let them know. Or should we include them??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastmeg2 Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 Lastly a protest is in order! The farmers came to Canberra last year and drove tractors to parliament house. I propose we do the same. Fill Canberra airport with Thrusters, Drifters and Jabirus and hold up the politicians when they are flying in. But before we do this we have to fit transponders to our rag and tube jobs... Hi Airsick, If you check your ERSA you will notice that Canberra airspace reverts to G-Class outside tower hours. In summer with enough daylight early enough or late enough it would actually be legal to fly in this airspace, excepting any "D" and "R" areas of course though I'm not too sure of the legalities of actually landing at Canberra airport. Cheers, Glen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pylon500 Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 journos, No need to annoy them ANNOY THEM? :raise_eyebrow: Doesn't anyone realize that the media now runs this country?! Every time some junior reporter stumbles across something where voices are raised, it's automatically their duty to create a story around it. Doesn't matter if it's beyond their comprehension or that they can't be bothered to do much research on the topic, they'll just compile it and hand it to their bimbo in front of the camera. Once it hits the airwaves, the pollies go into kneejerk mode and before you know it, we've got ASIC cards and closing airports! The downside to using the reputable journos like the ABC & SBS is that the pollies know that no-one watches them. I'm off to finish writing my letters..... Arthur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Longden Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 OI! Im one of them, remember? Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest High Plains Drifter Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 Im one of them, remember? "bimbo in front of the camera" or "reputable journos" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pylon500 Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 Im one of them, remember? I will accept that maybe you have to do news reporting before you can get to making doco's, just try to maintain your integrity till then. :thumb_up: Arthur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Macnoz Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 By line on ASIC Hi all, the use or other of ASIC in Far North Queensland gets an interesting and humorous sub story in an article about towing a motor glider to the tip of Cape York in this month's Australian Pilot magazine Brian Bigg the editor of the magazine, which is the public broadcast of AOPA promises an article on ASIC in the next issue and invites anyone with stories or opinions about ASIC cards to contact him on [email protected] (declaration of interest I am a member of AOPA) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sain Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 There are a couple of options you could take beyond letter writing. Consider talking to a lawyer about the phrase "deprevation of liberty", which is in effect what Snow is doing by not allowing you out of the gate. As for the email bomb I'd suggest against it. The pollies will just stop using their email, or they'll stick some poor pleb in front of a computer with orders to filter all the crap out (because they arn't smart enough to use outlooks inbuilt filters). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest airsick Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 I hear what you are saying Sain but if they have to take some sort of action to clear out their inboxes then it means they noticed something is up. That's the point we are trying to make. I fear that a lot of people probably can't be bothered writing a formal letter to their local member, minister, etc. so this might be a way to get them to participate. It may or may not work but if we sit back and do nothing then we only have ourselves to blame. And besides, what have we lost if it doesn't work? Five minutes of time to cut and paste then hit send. Small price to have a go don't you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest airsick Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 An email worth sending around to everyone who is concerned about airport access Dear fellow pilot and traveller, As the years go by the rights of pilots are eroded by the closure of airports and the restriction of access to those airports that remain open. This doesn’t just affect those who pilot their own aircraft, it will also result in a decline in numbers of student pilots which means we will have difficulty in finding suitably qualified people to pilot the aircraft used in airline operations. Standards will be lowered, safety will decline, costs will increase and we will be forced to find pilots from other markets outside of Australia. It appears that our calls for some sense in these areas are falling on deaf ears so it is about time we got a little louder. I have written a short passage below highlighting the attitude of airport owners using Terry Snow, the owner of Canberra airport, as an example. He is currently implementing measures that severely restrict access to private aircraft despite the fact that we pay him for the privilege. I am sure other airport owners are watching with interest to see what happens. I urge you to copy the italicised passage below and forward it to the following list of recipients between 6am and 8pm on Tuesday 16 September 2008. It is a simple request, just cut and paste then hit send at the right time. Forward this email to your flying buddies or anyone else that has ever used a plane for work or pleasure and encourage them to do the same. We need to get as many people as possible involved so the message is clear. If you care about your ability to jump in a plane and go flying or just want to be able to book a cheap airfare to Bali then you should care about this too. So put it into your diaries and don’t forget to let the powers that be know that you are fed up. “Terry Snow is restricting access to Canberra airport for GA pilots – this is not an isolated incident, similar restrictions are now in place all over the country and more are being implemented every day. GA pilots are the lifeline of aviation in Australia and the key to addressing pilot shortages in this country. The actions of Mr Snow and people like him are putting the future of aviation in Australia at risk. These issues need to be addressed so aviation can continue to grow and provide services so important to a country like Australia where the vast distances between major centres pose unique challenges to travellers. Closing airports and restricting access to those few air fields that remain is ensuring smaller numbers of Australians will choose piloting as a career of choice. Please help us stop people like Terry Snow from cutting the throat of one of Australia's most important transport links - aviation.†Recipient list: [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] So forward this onto all your associates that you think might care about this issue. And don’t forget to set a reminder in your phone/calendar so you remember to let everyone know we aren’t happy with the way this is panning out! Cheers, One of many disgruntled aviation enthusiasts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vk3auu Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 One thing that you should all do if you use an airport with a gate code is to make sure you carry a TEXTA with you. Write the code on every gate that you have to pass through. That might save some angst for others following. At YLTV we have a fence less than half way around the airport land and no locks on the gates, or we didn't the last time I was there. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ozzie Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 If ya not good at writing or just plain bone lazy you can use mine Dear Servant of the Crown, I would like to bring to your attention the sad and sorry state of Australia's General Aviation Airports. In paticular those that are shared with regular commercial flights. You may not be aware that due to what Recreational and General Aviation pilots have deemed to be kneejerk over reactions to certain "world events" that have occured overseas, we are now expected amongst other over the top requirerments to obtain ASIC cards that have an on going cost of several hundred dollars to access our aircraft that are parked on airports' some of which are operated by a Leasee. We feel that for the extra cost of the ASIC card and ridiculusly expensive associated user pay fees that we could at least be able to access the secure zone of the airport in a timely manner. Pilots trying to access their aircraft at Canberra are forced to wait in excess of 30 minutes until the leasee, one Terry Snow finds the time to send a security guard to unlock the gate. Coming or going pilots and their families and friends now have to factor at least additional hour to their journey just to get to or from their aircraft parked in the GA lot. Similar situations are occurring around the country. From bad attitude security to access problems, admenities and facilities removed because they could not be made secure. Excessive fines and penalties for obscure rules and greyline circumstance, Security Gone Mad. Whilst General and Recreational aviation pilots understand the need for being alert in the war against terrorism we would like to most strongly voice our collective disapproval of being used as the ammunition. We belive that it is now time to have a more realistc review of security and reverse the negative affects it is having right now and on the future growth of our aviation industry and past times. There really is no positive to security at the moment so no need to look at that as security is not working. Remove the ASIC card for weekend pilots and provide more local recreational airports with no RPT flights. The continued loss of airports and the situation of GA aviation being pushed out of airports by being locked out, such as in larger type airports like Canberra must stop. Australia's aircraft and pilot numbers are rapidly growing yet every year we lose more airports to developers and encroaching suburbia and no attempt to replace them. Sydney's Hoxton Park and Warnervale Airport are one current example. I trust that you will consider our collective view on current aviation issues and will present our concerns to the appropriate parties when you next convey. respectfully your Uncle Ozzie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest airsick Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 We need everyone to help on this Well written Ozzie. I don't think it really matters what gets written to be honest as long as it gets delivered. Re-read my original letter if Ozzie isn't enough inspiration! The main thing is that we get everyone to do this at the same time - between 6am and 8pm on Tuesday 16 September. A constant flow of emails into the inboxes of the above people should help us get our message across regardless of the exact content. So let's see some action. Cut and paste Ozzie's message or mine and forward it via email to as many people as you can think of. We need a concerted effort to take place here otherwise it is completely pointless and we may as well just hand back our licences now and take it lying down. Is that what we want??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icebob Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 Hi, Sent the letter to do a timed send off, i tried sending a test email but all the politicians web sites blocked me but the newspaper ones went straight through, I also have a timed responce to be sent to A Current Affairs(Channel 7 Sydney) research department at 9am on the day. Bob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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