Guest Redair Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Greetings each, well after the fun that was had with the plane on a conveyor puzzle, I have a new one for you all... as you will see, (if the picture has loaded) my idea is quite simple, (a bit like me really) instead of using a Rotax, I figure that if I set up a compressor and a few carefully designed pipes to transfer the compressed air to the leading edges of the wings, I can achieve enough airflow to produce lift, and given that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction, the rearward moving air will in fact propel my aircraft forwards. So, no need for a prop, and with the weight saving of not having fuel tanks and an engine, it will give me the capacity for the batteries I will need to power the compressor..... so, will the plane take off? Your thoughts please gentlemen, and ladies. Regards, Redair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest drizzt1978 Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 1) I hope thats a photoshop photo 2)Theres nothing simple anout the idea or you for that matter 3)If the idea did work, you could be a genius 4) If it doesnt...write a will Fun Thoughts tho, and no hard feelings!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motzartmerv Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Is that the same as putting a fan in a sail boat and blowing the air into the sailes?? if it is...then im afraid you'll need to rethink... love ya work but... nice photoshop job..;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pioneer200 Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Please can you let me know when and where first flight will take place, I want to make sure I am miles away from the disaster!! LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Redair Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 OK, first up... no, that is not a photoshop job. Second, I am working on the assumption that the airflow will provide lift to get the thing off the ground, and that the direction of airflow will just happen to cause forward movement as a by-product of its motion. Whether this will result in an ever increasing airspeed is not clear at this time. That is to say, that if the airflow causes the rising craft to move forward at 1 knot, and the airflow continues to to be produced at the same rate, it should in theory begin to accelerate, 2 knots, 3 knots etc. or perhaps it will square or maybe even cube its increase. Third, as I am building in what has now become known as Australia's "Area 51" or "Dreamland" there is no way of knowing exactly where the first flight will be... so you will all have to keep an eye to the sky:laugh:. Redair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Well It's a bit of an unusual idea, but then all inventions have to start somewhere i 'spose... But, let me mention a few factors you may have trouble with: First, I think you will have an awful lot of trouble getting enough air from your compressor to do anything that you have in mind. Compressed air is most useful under pressure...Ie, has a restriction of something, a bit like a pressure cleaner nossle.... Second, Like Motz said about the fan blowing into the sail idea, not a hope... but if your actually thinking of using the rush of air to propel you along. well then that goes back to the first difficulty.... Just a few things you may not have thought about yet.... Don't give up trying things though, because if we don't ever try new things, we'd all still be driving around on horses....;) Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazerin Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Haha! Well, provided all the things you said give you enough force to propel your aircraft forward, then, yes, it will work. However, all you've done is simply made a jet engine of sorts. To get enough air over the wings to create sufficient lift, you'd already be producing airflow that is fast enough to produce forward thrust. So effectively, you've just replaced your traditional rotax with another fan that produces thrust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Ok. just thought I'd mention to you, that if you want to play around with compressed air... I think this is the way to go about it....http://www.engineair.com.au/index.htm put a prop on something like this...and I think your nearly half way there. This particular engine only needs 1 Psi of pressure to over come its friction...thats what we need, something with efficiency.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 I Like it, even Mercedes has a "Kompressor" model, keep working on it.............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest keeffe Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 At least when you work out your lift formula your half P will be very high lol... Mike PS NOT ANOTHER BLOODY SAVANAH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motzartmerv Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Sorry redair.. thought it looked photoshopped, ya gunna need to direct some of that airflow over the ailerons too..hehe... at least with the airflow source being fixed your angle of attack will never change..... tecnically unstallable ...:thumb_up: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Of course the compressor also makes a neat counterbalance - better than a prop which becomes an obstacle to work around, safer too. This reminds me of the old Popular Mechanics projects like the flying car which had four fan jets providing down thrust. All the projects seemed very plausible, but never reached workable models. Industrial Designers often go back to the very basics to see if there is a more efficient way of making a product. If you put a piece of paper on a bench and give it a quick squirt of compressed air, it will lift. If you can blow a stable cube of air over the wings which is higher and lower than boundary layer turbulence, and wider than the wing tip wash you'd be on your way. That just requires solving the other two problems - making a compressor big enough, yet light enough, and solving the drag and weight problems of the paraphernalia required to create the stable airstream. Of course you could use thrust to pull the aircraft through the surrounding air using a Rotax and a propellor....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Redair Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 https://www.recreationalflying.com/xf2/uploads/emoticons/006_laugh.gif.0f7b82c13a0ec29502c5fb56c616f069.gif[/img].. tecnically unstallable ...:thumb_up: Excellent.... someone has picked up on what was going to be my next claim!! As for all the pipework required for getting the air up and over the wings, I was thinking of a leading edge with many built in nozzles or ducts so as to keep the wings aerodynamic, I mean, I don't want it to look ugly like one of those Crop Dusters! (Only joking Blueshed). And yes I agree that I have in effect just come up with a jet engine of sorts, but the difference being that most jets that I know of, require a long runway to get that elusive relative airflow over the wings, (please don't mention Harriers!!). My idea would give you that airflow before you begin to move forwards, and hence near vertical take off. OK guys, just keep an eye on the news over the next couple of weeks.... I figure that by now, some American will have grabbed this idea and will no doubt be busy throwing millons of US government dollars into testing it.... we can expect the Yanks to have one flying within a month:laugh:. Redair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hihosland Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 quote=motzartmerv; at least with the airflow source being fixed your angle of attack will never change..... tecnically unstallable ... However if you just put a big hydraulic jack under the end of the conveyor belt you could adjust the AOC as required. Davidh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest keeffe Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Sorry redair.. thought it looked photoshopped, ya gunna need to direct some of that airflow over the ailerons too..hehe... at least with the airflow source being fixed your angle of attack will never change..... tecnically unstallable ...:thumb_up: Gee AOA will never change why is that? Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Brett Campany Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 She'll be right mate, give 'er a go! :thumb_up: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Dear Orvil The only limit will be the length of the electrical cable and it's weight, both being issues that you can solve readily ... or "no worries" if you just want to orbit your joint. Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Redair, we cannot let his brilliant idea go overseas. You should apply to the Catfund for a research grant, and use of development facilities in Victoria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Redair Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 Dear OrvilThe only limit will be the length of the electrical cable and it's weight, both being issues that you can solve readily ... or "no worries" if you just want to orbit your joint. Regards OK, I give in... I can see that I am going to have to divulge ALL of my secret plans to make this work. I really did want to keep some back to ensure that no one else could steal the complete idea, but what the heck... here goes... Now there is no need for electric cable as there will be batteries to run the compressor. Ah but they will go flat, I hear you shout. No, and this is the clever bit... they will constantly be topped up with the use of micro thin solar panels which will cover the upper surface of the wings. The idea here being that not only will it produce electricity, but the forced airflow over the panels will also help to keep them cool, and result in a longer lifespan, (of the panels, if not the pilot!). And just to prove that I really have thought thhis all through... I intend to mount one of those bloody great wind turbine jobbies that are appearing all over the landscape, on top of the fuselage, just behind the cabin. In this way, we will first obtain lift, and hence flight through the battery power, which in turn will be kept up by solar regeneration, and then the forward, (ever accelerating motion) will cause the turbine to turn and provide a direct drive for the compressor. It's really a bit like those gizmo cars that can switch between the numer of cylinders which are being used. Anyone who wants in on the ground level with this idea can transfer their entire life savings direct to my bank account, (please PM me for details) and I will be quite happy to sign over the idea to them, (subject to terms and conditions). Redair Terms only investments over 6 million Au dollars will be considered, no refunds, guarantees, returns of any kind will be implied or granted. Persons transfering money do so at their own risk as the value of their investment may go up or down or just be spent by me on some really nice stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 Don't be cynical Redair, this seems to me to be a serious attempt at bring Australia back to the forefront of Aeronautical design. Remember Bert Hinkler from Bundaberg? You do raise an interesting point. Last years Solar car challenge from Darwin to Adelaide needed rule changes to limit the cars to the 130 km/hr NT speed limit, and they also required the driver to sit up straight, to reduce the horizontal area of solar panel. That's serious power generation, and with the wing area and top of fuselage capacity of a recreational aircraft, it warrants some serious thought. However, a friend and I decided we might enter one, but had to withdraw when we saw the electrical circuitry required. We were certainly too dumb to come up with a design, so anyone contemplating construction would need some sixteen year old tech school students to design and build the electrical side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yenn Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 You must ensure that the air inlet to your compressor is pointing forward to get added thrust. Now the idea of using those giant turbine blades needs modifying, they should be mounted with a vertical axis and you will have the worlds biggest gyrocopter. Then you run the compressed air to nozzles at their tips for propulsion. Don't tell me that won't work, I have seen it at the sewage farm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 do we have competition to the NES here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 Mind you Yenn, that's not all you see at a sewage farm! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slartibartfast Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 Great example. The sewage farm and this thread have a lot in common. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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