flying dog Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 I just attempted a human factors exam. It was a "walk in and do" go, so I guess I shouldn't complain. ** This is simply a statement and not an attack on the school/person/instructor/etc where I was. Problem noticed: One of the questions was about drinking time to flying. a: 8 hours. b: .022 blood alchahol. c: It doesn't matter d: 8 hours or .022 blood alchahol. The correct answer is D Yet, while chatting with another CFI, who has been to the "Human factors" thing in Canberra, etc, said that there is no reference to blood alchahol level in the testing. Honestly I would say that if "D" is correct, then by default "B" should superseed "D". Comments? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motzartmerv Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 No, you can have an 8 hour break and still be well over the limit.. Try not to post to many of the questions and answers on a public forum..;).. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLA82 Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 My course had that question Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dieselten Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 If you passed the exam I wouldn't stress about it. As with all things, the exams will require a little "tweaking", especially this one as it is relatively new. I am assuming this was the new RA-Aus Human Factors exam you did. If you think doing exams is hard, try setting them! No matter how unambiguous you make the answers, there is always someone who can mis-interpret a question, or read it wrongly, or find the wrong answer for the right reason. With new exams it is quite possible for a less-than-perfectly-correct answer to be selected as the best out of the choices. With a bit of feedback from candidates, usually these answers get weeded out or changed to eliminate the ambiguities etc. IIWY, I'd inform the instructor who administered the exam and have him follow up with RA-Aus. I'm sure he'd appreciate the feedback. If the wheel doesn't squeak, the brakeman won't give it any oil! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motzartmerv Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 The particular question your referring to isn't 8 hours OR .02.. its 8 hours AND .02.. Thats the RAA exam version anyway.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tmpffisch Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 Rule is 8 hours from departure. You are required to be at 0.0 however CASA provides a buffer up to 0.02. Alcohol in the blood up to 14 hours after drinking, effects up to 24 hours. D is more correct than B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thx1137 Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 Hmmm. My Human Factors book is for PPL but I haven't seen a reference to a blood alcohol limit in it, it simply says 8 hours and notes that you may still may be alcohol affected. It makes it hard to get ir right if the training material is different! Steven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabiru Phil Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 Ofcourse "D" is the correct answer. Imagine if you had a couple of stiff drinks and was then blood tested, you would be under .2 however some time later......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yenn Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 How in heavens name can you or I tell what is our blood alcohol level. From my understanding it relates to how much you consume, your body size and your metabolism, plus other factors. I dont think I have ever seen an easy way to get a blood alcohol reading in a flying school or club. Really the answer they want is irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest basscheffers Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 Yenn, it is relevant when the man from CASA comes and checks you with a breathalyzer! The rule is quite new, as far as I am aware. It provides a hard limit to prosecute on, which before didn't exist. Hence it is still not in most textbooks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 answer. the answer is 8 Hrs without drinking AND below .02 as has been stated. It would be quite difficult for an individual to know whether he met the requirements, and if you have been giving it a bit of a caning you can blow well over .05 ten hours after your last drink. However guess who's problem that is? If you are taking codeine, you will fail the test as well. ALL pilots should study the reference on the CASA site http://www.casa.gov.au/aod. Actually , not just pilots, anybody who might be doing something affecting the operation of an aircraft. Don't shoot me, I am only the messenger. Nev.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferris Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 I'd suggest the 0.02% rule has been brought in because a pilot with a high blood alcohol reading would just have to argue that he hadn't had anything to drink for 8 hours and CASA would not be able to do anything. This way they still keep the traditional 8 hour rule and have toughened up on the amount of alcohol in the system. The reason for 0.02% and not double 00 is that most juristictions legislate for a 0.02% variation in their breathalyzers and in certain very very rare cases, there may be naturally ocurring alcohol in a person's system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motzartmerv Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 Exactly.. Without giving too much away, one of the exams words it diffrently, it says, "the time after the last drink depends on the amount of alcohol consumed".. That probably sums up what the question is designed to teach us... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ozzie Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 things mechanical and booze just don't mix, even 24hrs later your head is still fuzz. back before breath testing 8 hrs was the accepted norm. Now we know better the ruling had to change and a actual limit set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flying dog Posted June 18, 2009 Author Share Posted June 18, 2009 Ofcourse on a slightly different approach: As I do NOT drink, the question is somewhat moot for me. I do not touch beer, etc. It doesn't do anything for me and so I take no pleasure drinking it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Human factors exam. The fact that you don't drink alcohol will not absolve you from having to answer the question, in the human factors exam. I would suggest that you should acquaint yourself with the situation regarding the medications which will cause you to fail the aod test as well. Nev. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yenn Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 I read the book and while I don't have it in front of me I cannot recall seeing any blood alcohol level quoted. As this is the bible as far as RAAus is concerned, are they changing the rules as we go along? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ken deVos Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Changes to the Civil Aviation Act (1988) were made in August 2007 to ensure CASA was able to implement a broad ranging random testing regime for drugs and alcohol. The AOD management plans are detailed on page 70 of the "Safety Behaviours - Resource Guide for pilots" (2009 CASA) and forms part of the "Human Factors for Pilots Resource Guide" .... THE CASA AOD INITIATIVE Scope The initiative applies throughout the aviation sector in all areas of Australia. The CASA-coordinated random AOD testing component of the program covers personnel undertaking, or available to undertake, safety-sensitive aviation activities. The education component of the program is accessible to all personnel and organisations within the Australian aviation sector. TESTING PROCEDURE FOR ALCOHOL AND OTHER DRUGS What substances will be tested? Delta-9-tetrahydrocannabiol (THC), the active component of cannabis■ Methylamphetamine, also known as speed, ice and crystal meth■ Methylenedioxymethylamphetamine (MDMA), also known as ecstasy■ Benzoylecgonie, the major metabolite of cocaine■ Opiates, found in heroin, morphine and codeine■ Alcohol.■ What are the permitted levels? Testable drugs:■ the permitted level is a concentration of the testable drug in 100 ml of blood, less than the confirmatory target concentration for that drug specified in table 5.1 of the Australian Standard 4760-2006. Alcohol:■ the permitted level is a concentration of less than 0.02 gm of alcohol in 100 ml of blood (or a concentration of less than 0.02 gm of alcohol in 210 litres of breath). On who, when and where will testing be conducted? Any person present in an area that safety-sensitive aviation activities are undertaken can be asked to ■undergo a test in accordance with the regulations Testing will be conducted 365 days, 24/7■ Testing will be where any safety-sensitive aviation activities occur and will not be limited to metropolitan ■and major regional centres. How will the testing be carried out? An independent authorised collector can ask for an oral fluid sample for drug testing and/or a breath sample for alcohol testing. ............... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Lewer Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Rule of thumb "8 Hours bottle to throttle" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ozzie Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Rule of thumb is irrevelant. if you are over .002 at anytime you are over the limit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Crezzi Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Rule of thumb "8 Hours bottle to throttle" I'm not sure that I would describe a requirement of the RAAus Ops manual as "a rule of thumb" ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flying dog Posted June 19, 2009 Author Share Posted June 19, 2009 So...... .002 Blood alcahol should be all. Ok, there is the "But he drunk a bottle of wine 3 hours ago!" So? His blook alcahol would be over .002 - wouldn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Robbins Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Under the new Drug and Alcohol testing regime already quoted, the permissable level of alcohol in the blood is .002%. Under the regulations, "8 hours bottle to throttle" CAR 1988 (Civil Aviation Regulations) (3)A person shall not act as, or perform any duties or functions preparatory to acting as, a member of the operating crew of an aircraft if the person has, during the period of 8 hours immediately preceding the departure of the aircraft consumed any alcoholic liquor. Penalty: 50 penalty units. So the exam is correct. Both .002% and 8 hours apply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Longden Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Beauty. :thumb_up: Chocolate and coffee are not on their Hit List. Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechfx Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 . 02 not .002 !!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now