Guest Qwerty Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 Are me and my mate the only two pilots that get mad with pilots doing checks and run ups on the threshold, particularly when there are aircraft (me in absolute particular) in the circuit. Sometimes the mongrels (if that is the propoer term for them) just sit there and take their sweet ol' time. I am aware of one instructor that teaches this, when I see him (and remember) I am going to open the topic for debate with him. What do you lot think about sitting on the runway forcing others to go around? Quentin Winston Erty Moderated by Ian for language Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Decca Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 Whatever he's doing QWE (and make sure it is in fact a pre-takeoff engine run-up, or you may trip yourself up) seems a bit off. Is it just at your airfield? You obviously have a run-up bay?? Decca. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 Well it all depends on the situation as always! It's not an ideal position to be in, basically a sitting duck with your back turned!! But I do have a soft spot for those where a run up anywhere else is criminal to the prop, because there is no " other non" stony area...! But I agree, if there is any other acft in the circuit, it's not fair for them! And don't do it if you can run-up elsewhere.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 Moderated by Ian for language Quention, you'll have to stop writing in Tasmanian - we use English in Australia. Yes, it's appalling airmanship. At Tooradin, we use the concrete around the terminal area, with the tail pointed out of the way and another concrete pad on a section of a taxyway - it's not that much of an effort really. If the whole aerodrome is covered in gravel a working bee and a concrete slab would solve the problem surely - cheaper than props I would think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slartibartfast Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 It's also possible to do your runups on the roll. That greatly reduces the chances of picking up stones. The Jabiru propellor manual recommends this if there is no stone-free runup bay, so it must be a good idea. They do mention that it is for the experienced only - or those who don't have Jabiru brakes . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 You got in ahead of me about the Jab brakes Slarti (only because you are doing other things with your hands of course), but that was often a way to save time on the long taxy from parking area to line up at Moorabbin, and not too hard on the brakes if you slowed first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 Run-ups on the roll. Murder on the brakes and if something went wrong, you wouldn't have a leg to stand on. Probably encourages an abbreviated check, too, and you MAY have someone behind you. Runups on the runway is something that I havent had to consider as it's the first time that I have heard of it. It is OFF really and once you line up , you are not meant to waste time sitting there. As has been pointed out, you cannot see approaching traffic, and anyone in the circuit seeing the aircraft in that position would assume that it will commence take-off immediately, or if it had a problem, vacate the runway expeditiously. nev.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunlopdangler Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 Absolutely bad airmanship to do run ups on the runway or the holding point, once you have entered the runway you are ready to go!! run ups should be done in a run up bay or prior to getting to holding point and I haven't been to an aerodrome/airstrip where this can't be done (stationary or on the roll totally up to you) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Qwerty Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 There is plenty of sealed area with places to do run ups and checks OFF the runway. I don't think checks and run ups on the move while back tracking is somthing that probably should be taught to abinitio pilots, particularly when its simply not neccessary. Sorry about the language Ian, attention elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 Well everyone agrees with you QWERTY so give 'em hell! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RKW Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 Runups on the runway! just another example of anti-social behaviour. I hope we never have to get used to it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyBye Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 I would have thought that this was poor airmanship as the aircraft on final has right of way at all times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 Sorry about the language Ian, attention elsewhere. :big_grin: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 I would have thought that this was poor airmanship as the aircraft on final has right of way at all times. Check your Air Leg? - the aircraft on final has to go round if there is another aircraft on the runway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 Check your Air Leg? - the aircraft on final has to go round if there is another aircraft on the runway. Which makes it even poorer practice (if that is possible) to occupy the runway doing runups with another aircraft on base of final. Sic 'em Quentin. (I did have a 'Structa once tell me of the merits of doing run-ups & a final carb ice check off at the side of the keys after a long backtrack, thereby allowing another aircraft to come in if needed) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shags_j Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 I get cranky when instructors spend 2 or 3 minutes on the htreshold talking to students while I'm waiting to line up. But maybe I'm just impatient. There is no way I would even think of doing run-ups on the threshold. It jsut seems inconsiderate of the other aircraft around you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cloudsuck Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 Check your Air Leg? - the aircraft on final has to go round if there is another aircraft on the runway. Not if it's a glider (with no radio) as is often the case at our field. It happens infrequently but we do get GA guys fron Archerfield doing runups with their back to the traffic and with gliders in the CCT. What the hell are they thinking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 So what happens when the glider comes in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Crezzi Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 Runups on the runway! just another example of anti-social behaviour. I hope we never have to get used to it! I don't know if they doing their runups, waiting for an imaginary clearance or praying to their chosen deity but I frequently see planes line up then park up at YCAB - exceptionally poor airmanship IMO. You shouldn't enter the runway until both you & the plane are good to go AND its clear to depart. Cheers John PS I'm sure the culprits aren't any of the posters on this thread ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cloudsuck Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 So what happens when the glider comes in? We all run out and start waving and pointing to try and get the pilot to get moving. If he dosen't, I guess they might crash (hasn't happened yet). We had a close call when a visiting Tecnam pilot lined up and was doing checks, (not too long) but long enough to have his back to the traffic. He called lining up at the same time as a glider called turning final. They transmitted over the top of each other so the pilot of the Teccie didn't hear the glider. Teccie started rolling just as the glider was coming over the fence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 Yes, that's what I was thinking - the difficulty is how you could make this situation safe at airports with similar mixes. Parallel grass emergency strip? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cloudsuck Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 Parallel grass emergency strip? That would be ideal, but never going to happen where we are. Perhaps a sign saying, 'Look out for gliders on final' or 'immediate departures only'. Or better still, if the local council would put in some run-up bays. Still .... shouldn't have to do any of that if people practiced a bit of good airmanship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shags_j Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 Caboolture has pseudo run-up bays but you still see people stuffing around on the threshold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mad Dave Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 I can kind of see an instructor with a low hours student taking a short period of time to talk through the take-off proceedure before sticking it, but any-one else should be straight off, I reckong it is a dangerous habit to get into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 Dave, it shouldn't even be that. What's wrong with instructing the student at the Holding Point. Certainly in RA training it was made very clear to me we don't cross the line, we don't straddle it, we stay behind it. What person who was let loose to command an aircraft couldn't understand that. Going back to the glider situation - by late final he's got a commitment. As someone said on another post they take off full well knowing the radio battery will be flat before they land. Well this situation would be a good one to talk to each other about. If nobody does anything, the laws of probability will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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