Fantasy Air " Allegro 2000 "

[bacchus]

Hoping someone is able to help me with info on the Allegro 2000 .

 

I am currently considering all aircraft to hopefully make a purchase in the next six months , having trained exclusively on the Evektor Sportstar , I have a preference for Rotax powered aircraft.

 

My other requirements are " reasonable " not exceptional STOL Performance , High Wing , and Good visability for low and slow flying ( being able to open doors in flight would be a bonus ).

 

I have flown in the right hand seat of Ron Hoey's recently completed Savvy XL and was sold on the spot with the beautiful aircraft, and that is more than likely the way I will go , however now having decided to buy second hand and not build , the Allegro seems to fit the bill by spec standards also ! In addition to this it would also fit into the preferred budget of around 50 k which will not get me an XL.

 

Whilst I have read all the flight reviews , spec sheets etc on the Allegro I would like some feedback on how they handle etc from a current owner / flyer.

 

In addition to this if anyone is interested in a 50/50 partnership in either of these aircraft with a view to hangaring at YADG , YGWA , YMBD , Rollo,s , Callington or Strathalbyn SA ,

 

" this would also open up the possibility of a New Factory built Savvy @ $85 k "

 

Please give me a call !

 

Thanks in advance

 

Bacchus

 

 

[bacchus]

Yes have looked at the improvements made Black Rod between the two models and noted the larger tail , and the extra stability it provides.

 

Have not considered the 2007 due to price but I Guess you may be making reference to the reported handling of the 2000 with Elevator , rudder and alieron controls not being in sync in relation to the amount of control pressure required ?

 

If so this is the exact reason I would like feedback from people rather than flight reviews ( with respect to those who write them )

 

Thank's Black Rod and I will continue to dig !

 

:thumb_up:

 

 

[Guest Howard Hughes]

One for sale on Ebay at the moment!

 

Allegro 2000 Ultralight Aircraft - eBay, Aircraft, Aircraft, Cars, Bikes, Boats. (end time 22-Apr-10 21:05:44 AEST)

 

 

[Guest Walter Buschor]

Hi baccus,

 

It's not my business to " tell " you what is right for you . I would just like to inform you that Bill Grieve is selling his Savannah VG for approx $ 65000. It is truly one of the best. It does have 450 hours but this is of no concern . One lucky buyer will score a great plane. Worth every cent.

 

( I do not get anything out of this ).

 

If you're interested send me a message and I will send you all the details.

 

fly safe

 

Walter

 

 

[Admin]

Just a word of caution if you do go with the allegro you will need to make sure that you get any ADs or ANs from the factory or from other reliable sources other then the distributor to be sure you DO get them - good luck with your decision :big_grin:

 

 

[bacchus]

Thanks all for the feedback , Walter , if the budget stretched that far sounds like a good buy ! Also have spoken to the owner of the Allegro on E'bay Howard and think is an exceptional buy @ $65 k with less than 100 hrs , BRS etc but also exceeds my solo budget !

 

Thanks Ian , will keep that in mind . BlackRod point well taken , I thought Allegro was Italian for happiness ? Does being cheerful and Gay = Happiness ? Don't Know lol !

 

Thinking a 50/50 share in a Factory Savvy may be the ultimate for what I want

 

either that or a lottery win !

 

Can anybody confirm if the full view Lexan doors from the new Savvy XL can be fitted

 

to the origianal VG or is there a size issue ?

 

 

[Neil_S]

Hi Bacchus,

 

If you want high wing, Rotax-powered, low and slow, and fly with doors open have you considered a Gazelle? There are a few for sale at the moment, and you should be able to get a reasonable one for about $35k. Definitely worth a thought.

 

Cheers

 

Neil

 

 

[Admin]

Hi Bacchus,If you want high wing, Rotax-powered, low and slow, and fly with doors open have you considered a Gazelle? There are a few for sale at the moment, and you should be able to get a reasonable one for about $35k. Definitely worth a thought.

 

Cheers

 

Neil

Actually...it just so happens I know of a real good blue one for sale :big_grin:

 

 

[bacchus]

Hi Neil , will take another look at the Gazelle ! Must admit have not really considered it

 

as I have not enough info having never seen one up close.

 

At around 95 to 100 kg , and 6ft I do need a fair bit of room in the cockpit with a passenger and I was under the impression that they are not that roomy ? ( stand to be corrected ) Stitt fabric and the up keep of , I am also ignorant in , just seems like more maintainence long term ? Although I think the real reason is that I want to spend the entire family allocation of funds lol , because all the reports say the Gazelle is lovely to fly.

 

Many Thanks

 

 

[bacchus]

Thanks Ian , just had a look , obviously a lot of good memories for you in her !

 

Looks a sweet aircraft.

 

 

[xair1159]

I may be wrong, but I think you will find the original Allegro was all composite and the latest has a metal wing, plus the tail redesign you already noted.

 

Nick

 

 

[Ding]

Whats around.

 

I know where there is a good Skyranger for sale if you would consider something along those lines. 100HP Rotax, cruise 80 to 90Kn, 16-17 litres/hr.

 

If you want to know more pm me.

 

Ding.

 

 

[David F]

Allegro

 

Dont like to say it but I wouldnt touch one with a barge pole.Keep looking buy something that will make you happy.

 

Dave

 

 

[bacchus]

Thanks Ding , but prefer alum / comp construction for various reasons .

 

Thanks for the reply David but why so negative ? have since spoken to an ex-owner

 

who has said he would buy another one tomorrow , and loved the way it flew.

 

Getting more confused the more people I talk to !

 

Will have to try and hire one for a real comparison I guess .

 

Thanks all

 

 

[pete duncan]

I learnt to fly in an allegro at polo flat . The cfi used it for about 700 hrs and then got a jab for training. I found it lacked the necessary headroom for my 6ft 2 and had to sloutch when flying. The L2 had to do a few things to increase the feel of the controls (read bungees). I did like it but as it was my first aircraft I cannot realy comment to much. It was considered great when first put on line but later was felt a little twitchy. Perhaps that is why the jab replaced it . A few hrs of flying one will give you an idea, good luck with your decision,

 

 

[wanabigaplane]

At Temora I saw Brumby are coming out with a high wing version.

 

What is a Savvy XL ?

 

Jack :):)

 

 

[bacchus]

G'day Jack , Savvy xl being a Savannah , the new XL is larger with an extra 10 cm

 

cabin width. www.aerokits.net.au for a look , really nice plane for STOL.

 

Was look at building a kit as it was around budget, but don't have the confidence to build

 

and think I would become a little impatient

 

[link edited from .com.au to .net.au] - mod.

 

 

[Guest Walter Buschor]

Hi Baccus,

 

have a look at "Shopping" "Aircraft ultralight" and you'll see Bill Grieve's Savannah.

 

The VG will take the lexan doors that are standard on the XL.

 

Like you i'm around 100kg and 6'4" tall. I have no trouble fitting in the VG. The extra space of the XL would be nice but is not required. I did some hours in a Gazelle. I do like it but the knees will be around your ears. This does not matter if you're only going for an hour. On a loger trip though your only pax should be your Ciropractor or you'll remain doubled up unable to move.

 

hope this helps

 

Walter

 

 

[Neil_S]

Hi Bacchus,

 

Ah yes, at 6ft you may be a bit cramped in a Gazelle. I am a vertically-challenged 5ft 4in, and around 62kg, so I actually sit on a cushion in it :big_grin:. One of the few advantages to my height is when flying in economy to the UK, I really feel sorry for the 6ft people sitting along from me! Flying is the only time I can look down on tall people :big_grin:.

 

Anyway, hope you get what is right for you...

 

Cheers

 

Neil

 

 

[Thomas Ivines]

Bacchus:

 

I love reading the opinions of those who do not own nor have they ever flown an Allegro 2000. Well, I own one and have been flying it for close to two years now. Like you I spent a great deal of time deciding what light sport to buy based on the limited funds I had available to spend. Please read on:

 

The best deal on a light sport for the money I had available was in the used market. I paid $48,000 US for a like new Allegro 2000 with 350 total hrs. After weighing the price, performance, and specifications it was the only choice, and I am not sorry I bought it.

 

The first real test for the airplane was the maiden flight after purchase. I bought it in Reno, Nevada and flew it back to my home town in Punta Gorda, Florida. That was a distance of over 2,500 miles across numerous mountains, deserts, and not always so desirable weather. The little airplane exceeded my expectations.

 

The average burn rate was 3.75 gal per hour at 110 mph. The airplane actually got better gas millage than my car and best yet that was on auto gas. Not bad for a 100 hp. engine The Rotax 912s outperformed my past Cessna fitted with a very heavy 160 hp Lycoming.

 

The Allegro 2000 is highly under rated and has been the underlying cause for declining prices since the 2007 model came out. It is every bit as good as the newer model for less than half the price. The improvements in the 2007 model are more cosmetic than performance based and I know because I flew one to see the difference. The only noticeable change is the headroom height and bubble door/windows. They fly the same and the usefull load for both is still over 500 lbs with full fuel.

 

I have heard the complaint on the elevator, rudder and aileron trim differential pressures. I say "hogwash." I have not flown an airplane yet that had equal pressures. Like any airplane, each individual aircraft will have its own characteristics. You quickly become accustomed to them and settle into normal flying. What no one seems to mention, is the ease at which it takes to fly the Allegro. A 10-year-old child could do it. The control stick is more like a joy stick than a control stick. Up, down, turn and bank is all done with effortless wrist action.

 

Like any light airplane the rudder authority is more prevalent than a heavier, standard category GA airplane but far less that the J-3 Cub I owned years earlier. If you buy a light sport airplane you are going to have to use the rudder unlike some standard category aircraft like a Cessna 172.

 

For economy, ease of flying, maintenance minimums, and price overall, you cannot beat an Allegro 2000 hands down.

 

Oh, and by the way, the HOBS has just turned over 600 hrs on my Allegro and the only thing I have ever had to do is regular oil changes. With the oil pump return pressure spring and gear box service recommended at 800 hrs by Rotax, the TBO will go from 1,500 to 2,000 hrs.

 

You would not be sorry for purchasing a good, used Allegro 2000.

 

Regards,

 

ivinest

 

 

[eightyknots]

By the way, a literal translation of "Allegro" into English is "quick and lively" or "cheerful and gay" . . . but don't let that put you off

Another translation for allegro is "buoyant".

 

Bacchus, did you ever end up getting your own aircraft?

 

 

[fatmal]

Mal here, Allegro 2000 owner. There have been a few comments in this thread about the handling of the Allegro, especially regarding control-force mis-match, so I thought I'd throw in my 2cents worth. Control weights are a little mismatched - pitch control is light, roll a little heavier, and yaw heavier still. It does take some getting used to, but after a couple of hours it becomes second nature.

 

I learnt in a Texan, and have flown the SportStar. Are they better handling aircraft - Yes. Would I want one - Absolutely. Can I afford one - Definitely Not! For about half the price of a Texan or SportStar I can cruise just as fast, land slower, fly with the doors open, and see out better (certainly down, where all the hard stuff is!).

 

Things that struck me about the Allegro when first flying it were;

 

• Glide ratio. With such a large wing the glide is amazing - lots of options should the Rotax up front stop (not that rotaxes do that of course :big_grin:)
   
   
  
• Climb rate. I'm 90kg (hence the 'fat' in the fatmal user name), and with 55 litres of fuel onboard (full tanks - 3hrs +45min reserve, 103Kg useful left for pax & luggage) I regularly see 1200'/min climb
   
   
  
• Amount of rudder required. In the Texan, the only time I used the rudder was when taxying or sideslipping. It was a real suprise first time I turned the Allegro and the skid ball almost exited the side of the aircraft! You can tell when you've got it really wrong, when the perspex door 'pops' in!
   
   
  
• Deck angles. On climb, you cannot see over the nose - the bottom of the panel is on the horizon! Putting out 48 degrees of those big barn-door flaps also changes the deck angle considerably!
   
   
  
• Economy. Cruise (hands-off) at 90-95kts, 4400rpm, burns 12.5 litres/hour (I still plan at 15 though!). If I up the cruise to 100-105kts (4800rpm-ish), it goes to about 14.5 litres/hour. As mentioned in a previous post, you can reach VNE (118kts) in level flight - if you open the taps up!
   
   
  
• Crosswind landing. The 2000 is placarded at 10kt max crosswind, which is why the 2007 has a bigger rudder. Personally, I think that is being very conservative, and I have landed in a 10-15kt crosswind with only half rudder input.
   
   
  

 

 

In my opinion (which is biased of course!) the Allegro is a bit of a performance bargain. For less than $60k you get a composite and metal aircraft, which is fun to fly, cheap as nuts to run, fast enough, and should last forever.

 

Mal

 

 

[Thomas Ivines]

I wanted to clear up a misconception on the VNE on the Allegro 2000. Even though the placarded VNE is 136 mph, the actual VNE is 156 mph. Fantasy Air arbitrarily used the max speed as the VNE thinking this is what the FAA wanted. It was left that way to prevent pilots from overspeeding with the 100 hp engine. This fact can be verified by Doug Hempstead, the CEO of Allegro LSA.

 

Ivinest

 

 

[fatmal]

I wanted to clear up a misconception on the VNE on the Allegro 2000. Even though the placarded VNE is 136 mph, the actual VNE is 156 mph. Fantasy Air arbitrarily used the max speed as the VNE thinking this is what the FAA wanted. It was left that way to prevent pilots from overspeeding with the 100 hp engine. This fact can be verified by Doug Hempstead, the CEO of Allegro LSA.Ivinest

Thomas,

Thanks for that info - now I can go faster!!!

 

mal.

 

 

[XP503]

Not a fan of the Allegro at all, terrible aircraft