dan tonner

Hi Nev; I think you lost me. My Savannah 's wing tanks are each vented via a threaded fitting in the center of the filler cap. A plastic tube slips over the barbed end of the fitting, loops upwards 3-4 inches then turns down and passes through the wing structure. The open ends of the vent tubes protrude below each wing. To what other venting system are you referring? The check valve arrangement I am considering would permit fuel to flow out of each wing tank to the header tank behind the passenger seat - a tank vent is required to allow air to enter as the fuel flows to the header tank. "...both pumps on..." ??? Are you suggesting pressurizing unvented wing tanks using the mechanical and electric fuel pumps? I believe I've misunderstood something in your reply. Fly safely, Dan

Hello Rob and Facthunter; Rob: I was considering the use of valves as you've described (I have only two tanks) with care to keep the right tank slightly below full when topping up. Beyond two more valves for my checklist, your solution seems quite sound. What are your thoughts on the check valves ? Facthunter: I did draw out your suggestion of crossover vent lines - an interesting proposal. One thought that occurred to me was that it may set up an unintended siphon: ...if the plane were tied down on a 10 degree slope, it is possible that most the fuel in the higher wing's full tank would lie above the vent hole in the cap of the lower wing's full tank. If the crossover vent tubes were run through to the underside of the wing (as designed) and fuel flow got started through the arc of the vent line (expansion, sloshing ?) the upper tank would be siphoned to the level of the vent hole in the cap of the lower tank. Again, what are your thoughts on check valves for each tank? Regards, fly safely, Dan

The Savannahaircraft Yahoo Group has an interesting thread going on the topic above and I would like to cast the net a little further for input and opinion by sharing the topic with Recreational Flying readers and contributors. I've taken the liberty of posting my inquiry (below) on both this as well as the Yahoo site. I am keen to see your reactions to the thread. Fly safely, Dan I am a bit late jumping into this discussion but as my Savannah VG XL approaches flight readiness, the subject of fuel spillage is of great interest to me. Anytime the secondary onboard tank is full and there is some fuel in each wing tank, gravity and/or centripetal force can move fuel from one tank to another as if they were directly connected across their outflow points. Imagine a 6-foot long teeter-totter with a vented and filled tank mounted on each end. Now attach a hose along the plank connecting the two outlets. This, in effect, is what we have in our airplanes. While stationary, any tilt in either direction will pour fuel from the higher to the lower tank. Once the level reaches the top of the vent tube arc, fuel will spill out from the lower tank. Mental arithmetic suggests a 10 degree tilt with 6 feet of separation between the tank outlets would give a 6 to 8 inch height difference between the two tanks - given time, perhaps enough to empty the upper tank completely through the vent. Uncoordinated turns would also result in fuel movement from one tank to the other due to centripetal or centrifugal forces acting on the liquid - imagine the filled and connected tanks mounted flat and side by side on the left and right side of truck bed while the driver veeres left or right on either a level or sloped roadway. Stationary or moving, I suspect ram air pressure on the end of the vent tube would only marginally prevent fuel outflow. Of course, planes with tanks further outboard in each wing (dual tank situations) have greater tank separations resulting in larger height differences at any given degree of tilt. Has anyone tried installing a fuel check valve in the fuel line between each wing tank and the onboard tank? (Aircraft Spruce P/N 05-00719 or P/N 10630). In the teeter-totter or truck bed analogy, the check valves would prevent fuel flow INTO the tank through each tank outlet. In the airplane, although fuel could not flow from one wing tank into the other, it is still able to flow freely into the secondary tank as space permits. I am eager to hear your views (or receive word on your experience) with this suggested setup.

Sorry about the delay Eightyknots, I'm actually visiting Italy as I write this. ICP (through Valter della Nebbia, ICP's distributor in Texas) arranged to have the last of the parts I need sent to me here in Italy. Saves a bundle in shipping, and, most important, no waiting. I would like to be airborne before the first snow in Nova Scotia, but, if not, next spring. I took my time to get everything "just so" when I built my plane and I will insist on having the repairs "just so" as well. I was very fortunate in that there was no major damage to anything other than my pride. Best regards, Dan

Hello Rankamateur; Thanks for the response, I appreciate all the input I can get. I have gotten a lot of opinions on the question of straightening the aluminum main gear spring. There was a consensus that if the spring could be cold-bent to its original shape while maintaining significant "force-load" during the process, then a suitable repair would result. Use of heat was universally discouraged. I took the spring to an industrial machine-shop, shared the opinions and the cautions and we gave it a go. The shape was restored to original. We matched the left side to the undamaged right side using a cardboard template which I'll keep for future pre-flights. I'll keep you updated if there is any deformation once the airplane is making more "normal" landings. Is there an Aerokits for North America? The three-point door latch and the manifold vacuum gauge are of particular interest but I'm on the other side of the globe. Fly safely, best regards, Dan

Thanks for the reply Mark; I had already arranged the first flight to be handled by my Ultralight instructor...I think he was as excited as I was about getting my plane in the air the first time - he'd been watching the construction process, more or less, from the outset in 2011. It really was a taxi run - why I felt I had to see what 10 degrees of flaps felt like remains a mystery. With a 10 kph headwind straight down the runway...well, the rest is now a piece of my airplane's logbook and my piloting skills learning curve. The repairs are going well and I was fortunate the damage did not involve the engine, the firewall, the wings, fuselage or empennage. I did get the main gear spring straightened with two "cold bends" - one with a 10-ton press and judicious use of supports under the spring; the second by using a massive tubing bender around a suitably sized radius. The North American agent advised that up to three "corrections" can be made to the spring before replacement is recommended. This being said, the spring is bound to lose some strength and some flexibility each time it is flexed past its memory point. I've made a "spring-shape" template to use for pre-flight checks. I read a while back that you were in touch with Eric Giles at World Aircraft Company. I actually bought my Savannah VG XL kit (Eric renamed them "VGW"'s from Eric's former company, SkyKits. I believe it was SkyKit's last sale before Valter della Nebbia acquired the North American distributorship for ICP. I understand Eric's new line of airplanes (especially Spirit and Vision) are the brain children of the same Max Tedesco who worked with Chris Heintz to develop the CH 701 and later, on his own, the MXP 740 and the Savannah. Fly safely, Dan

I have recently finished assembly and registration of my Savannah VGXL. During a rather high-speed taxi trial, I became airborn, panicked and managed a couple of hard porpoise bounces before finally coming to rest in a rough patch next to the runway. Did you ever see a grown man cry over a broken toy? I bent the main gear spring - the top bend on the left side is "splayed" about 6 degrees and there is a downward "sag" in the top bar under the fuselage on the left side. I am looking for advice regarding whether this level of overstress can be straightened while maintaining enough strength and flex for safe flight afterwards. If so, can this straightening be accomplished through cold bends without trying to anneal and re-temper the aluminum spring? The front gear leg folded under resulting in more damage than just a bent mainspring, but the engine and gearbox have been checked out and were unscathed (god bless the slipper clutch) and the firewall, wings, fuselage and empennage were all untouched. Cowling repairs (and a new prop) are in process. Your views will be appreciated. Best regards, Dan

Waaait a minute............Technam GA is the name of a plane, not a place, isn't it? So you are probably not from Georgia (GA) and that "GA" probably means "General Aviation". Oh well; the rest is my story an' I'm stickin' to it. Nova Scotia Dan

I notice you are in Georgia (USA I assume) I've just built a VGW here in Canada (VG XL in the rest of the world) and the kit came with Matco wheels and brakes and 8:00 x 6 tires. The tires are actually Carlisle Golf Cart tires and were included when I requested the "Tundra Tire" option. They are installed and posed no clearance problems on my airplane. (Although not airborne yet, I am busy taxiing the snot out of the project and I'm happy with the undercarriage so far.) There were differences between the wheels with my kit and the wheels described in the assembly manual. Perhaps one of the owners Downunder can enlighten us on what brand of wheels are supplied in their kits. I think my kit may have been the last Savannah that SkyKits sold (now World Aircraft Company in Tennessee) before Valter began marketing the kits for ICP out of Texas. The numbers on these tires (8.00 x 6 for example) give the maximum inflated width of the tire (sidewall to sidewall) x the rim size in inches. Fly safely, Nova Scotia Dan

Congratulations from Nova Scotia Mark. I am still putting the final bits and pieces together on my XL and hope to be airborne before summer. What is the product name for the "non-osmotic" fuel hose you used to get rid of the fuel smell? I'd also like a little more information on the toe brake extensions .... did you simply lengthen the upper part of the brake pedal? Am I correct to say that this was to increase the leverage on the master cylinder plunger? As I've followed your rebuild, I've been most interested in the new fibreglass cowling shells - lighter weight up front would have reduced the need to add weight at the tail - I understood many Sav builders had to do this to get the W&B figures centered. Your pictures remind me how wonderful it would be to build an airstrip and hangar on a golf course. Beautiful; just beautiful! Fly safely. Dan

Thanks for the welcome, Skee. I've been following the forum and fully enjoying the superb comraderie evident here - not to mention reaping the benefit from excellent suggestions and years of experience from the Savannah forum's membership. I hope to see this kind of fellowship among Sav owners/builders here in North America as well - I am aiming for a Canadian springtime launch of my nearly complete Sav VGW. All the best, Dan

Hello from Canada; The Savannah VGW (the North American model name for the VG XL) has been added to the Canadian listing of aircraft eligible to be registered as Advanced Ultra Light Aeroplanes - in either Land or Seaplane configuration - in Canada. The Savannah S is sure to follow shortly. [/url] http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/standards/general-ccarcs-advancedullist-2036.htm Congratulations to Valter della Nebbia of ICP Aviation North America - perhaps we'll begin to see these aircraft proliferate here as they have in Australia and South Africa. Canada Dan

Hello Bob and Kyle; Nothing like closing the gate after the horse is gone. I couldn't help jumping in here after your exchange on Camloc fasteners for the cowling. A company in the USA called Milspec (good name!) has developed a series of adjustable receptacles that are designed for use with either Camloc - or their own - spring-loaded studs. The adjustment is in half-turn (.015"- .38 mm) increments and makes a near-perfect fit every time. The real beauty of the adjustable receptacle is that one size receptacle covers a .3" (7.5mm) range of different stud lengths - no need to have a huge variety of studs to choose from - and the receptacles can be readjusted - if necessary - afterwards. Their website is: . I have ordered from the Florida company (Jeff, Jason and Josh) a couple of times and have found them prompt, courteous and good-to-their-word. I am not sure if there is a distributor in the Downunder or if the costs doing business from half- a world away are prohibitive. I've attached some pictures of my cowling attachments ("inside- fitted" to the fuselage). The "wedges" tilted the receptacles to allow a perpendicular pull by the studs at the lower fuselage junctions with the cowling. I really appreciate the great exchanges on recreationalflying.com. Fly safely, Dan

As you can tell from the stumbling reply below....I am still struggling with how to submit a reply on the Recreationalflying.com site... To continue from my chopped-off sentence below, .....exited that strategy after getting a snapshot preview of the labyrinth of procedures, regulations and forms (not to mention costs) of the "Amateur Build": process. The Advanced UltraLight Aeroplane (AULA) registration will provide me with everything I need for my recreational goals. I am over 65, just learned to fly and am pretending to be a realist. Buying and importing is a piece of cake: just make sure the kit you buy is on Transport Canada's "Listing of Models Eligible to be Registered as Advanced Ultralight Aeroplanes". There is no duty on any aircraft or aircraft kit but you will pay Provincial /Federal Sales Tax (HST in N.S.) on any kit, parts or finished airplane you purchase. There is also a similar listing of kits that can be built for "Amateur Built" registration - and this introduces the first interference from Transport Canada - the 51% rule - good luck with that and the myriad of obstacles and inspections and conditions that follow. I live in Nova Scotia, will be back there about mid-April and could talk your ear off if you are interested. (902) 826-9103 Where are you located? The new North American Savannah Agent is Valter della Nebbia in Texas: (I.C.P. Aviation North America L.L.B.). He has been an asset; very supportive with a genuine interest in my project - even though I purchased my kit from his company's predecessor, SkyKits, the previous North American ICP distributor, located in Tennessee. Eric Giles (of SkyKits) has moved on to other aircraft with a new company (World Aircraft Corporation) and was also very supportive and helpful as I've assembled my project over the last 2.5 years. I would go this route again given what I know now. Keep in touch; maybe someday there will be a Savannah fly-in somewhere I can reach in Canada. Best regards, Dan

Hello from Nova Scotia, Kyle. I am interested in those throttle mods - I made some imaginative sweeps and loops with the cables from my throttle rod cable connection to the carbs - requiring a re-shaped firewall bracket - but it all seemed too complicated for something so critical. I've attached some pics - comments are welcome. Having the throttle cables connected directly to the levers that connect to the cabin-side control rods seems like a sensible alternative. Somewhere in these blogs I also saw adjustable solid rod connections from the carb levers to the throttle rod levers and from there to the cabin-side control rods - equally impressive. I'd like to see more details of these set-ups. I watch the blogs religiously and am truly envious of the comraderie and numbers of Sav owners/builders you enjoy Downunder. I guess I'll just have to promote these Savs like crazy and get an east-coast Canadian group together. There are only 23 of these planes registered in Canada - most on the west coast. Regards all; fly safely. Dan

I haven't posted any "almost airborne" pictures of my Savannah VGW so I figured it is time... From Nova Scotia...Canada! First time ever in cyberspace....... TA DA! Dan (Pictures taken early December - just before the great North American East Coast Freeze Up)

"I learned to fly in my 60's and have only about 80 hours solo time logged - I can use all the help I can get. I learned to fly on a club ultralight - an Aeroprakt A22ntly" (Clearly, I am stumbling a little getting this reply posted too.....) The club planes are Aeroprakt A22's - "Foxbats" in the UK and "Valors" in the US, I don't know how common they are downunder. These tricycle-gear aircraft were equipped with a Yoke and a single handbrake attached to the central throttle lever. As I was building I was looking for options to convert the toebrakes (with which I have zero experience and even less confidence) to a stick mounted single brake lever system - I have difficulty seeing much benefit in differential braking on this airplane. Any thoughts? Another recurrent issue seems to be fuel smell and/or fuel leakage. Are you replacing all your fuel lines - including the return line and the fuel pressure gauge line - with "osmosis-proof" lines? (I'm not sure what that is, by the way...) Probably the biggest issue I face during my build is the absence of a Savannah community here in Eastern Canada. At last count, I believe there were only 15 Savannahs registered in the country; one within a few hundred kilometers, the others over 500 Kms - most a few thousand Km away - on the other side of Canada. These sites (Yahoo and Recreational Flying) are absolutely essential for me.... All the best, Fly safely. Dan

Happy New Year Mark; Your blog and many, many others gave me a great deal of information and advice to consider and sort through. In particular, Tony (TG2546 on Yahoo Savannahaircraft) has become my sounding board for the last 2.5 years as my plane came together. SkyRaft was built the about a year before my plane and Tony provided some wonderful guidance as I worked through my build. I learned to fly in my 60's and have only about 80 hours solo time logged - I can use all the help I can get. I learned to fly on a club ultralight - an Aeroprakt A22ntly The wiring diagram is actually posted under "Photos" as Nova Scotia Savannah VGW. Dan

Hello Mark; I have been following your build on both this site and the Savannahaircraft site since I started building my own Savannah VGW (same plane - North American designation) here in Nova Scotia, Canada, in July of 2011. I have over 1000 hours of logged build time on my project and expect to be airborne in the spring. The attached picture was taken in early December just before I stored her for the winter. I spent most of the summer of 2012 redesigning the wiring plan and getting input on the mods before doing the electrics installation in the fall of that year. The final revision of my schematic is posted on Savannahaircraft. You make reference to "the incident" in this post which, I surmise, occurred sometime between May and December of 2013 - but give no details. Is there anything I should be aware of before I begin trials with my plane? Your repairs look as good as (better than?) the original; especially the lightweight cowling fitted outside the fuselage skin (where ICP should have put it in the first place). Did you layup the fibreglass yourself or is the cowl available through the ICP network? All the best for 2014; I've thoroughly enjoyed your posts; Fly safely, Dan Tonner

I will be attaching the wings to the fuselage this summer and I've heard lots about issues in fitting the wing-to-windshield fairing on these airplanes. I am interested in your experiences in this regard - in particular - what you've found that works or what you would do differently next time. I have over 600 hours into the build so far, am lovin' it, and have managed to decipher most of the poor Italian-to-English translation from the assembly manual. Maybe I'll get air this fall. Dan

Hello Mark and all; I am at hour 500 with my Savannah VGW (I believe this is the North American VG XL) and I am enjoying every minute. This is my first airplane build and I am taking all the help I can get - there are only 15 Savannahs currently registered in Canada and none here in Nova Scotia (on the east coast) where I live. It is always a bit like a pioneering adventure when an issue pops up with the construction. I thought it appropriate to let you know how encouraging it is to hear from others with the same interests and with a willingness to share. Tony G (Denver Colorado) kindly steered me to your thread and has been a true friend - including sharing his building (and flying) experiences with SkyRaft - his Sav VGW which he started building about the same time this thread began. He indicated he had a similar flaperon pins issue and gave me the "heads-up" as I am still months from that point. I should also add that Eric Giles and his crew at (the former) SkyKits in Tennessee (now World Aircraft Company) - and Valter at ICP North America - (the new ICP agent for North America) have been very supportive and generous with their assistance. I have made special note of this thread and will make very careful measurements after attaching my wings - but before I rivet the attachment pins in place. It is a secure feeling to have a "fix" in my pocket prior to encountering an anticipated problem. I'm interested in your views about squaring the cabin frame: my cabin front to back wing mount measurements were as per the manual and also match my actual wing measurements. This dimension is controlled by the jig and, unless there were a manufacturing issue, should be exact anyway. (The operant in this sentence is "should".) The horizontal cabin diagonals (right rear to left front wing attachment holes and left rear to right front wing attachment holes) were made as close to identical as possible by using a pair of tie-down straps criss-crossed over the frame and tightened accordingly. Regarding vertical cabin diagonals - that is - the squareness of the cabin in cross-section. This is largely controlled at this point by the baggage van and seat back and these went together without issue. Further, I don't believe the top tubes on the cabin roof would have much effect if the cross-section were out-of-square. However, even a small amount of "lean" in the cabin cross-section would be magnified when the wings and the struts are attached to each side. So: how did you handle this measurement and how are adjustments (if required) needed? All the best, fly safely, Dan

Hello Thalass; I am a Canadian Citizen living in the United Arab Emirates and I've learned to fly here. While on holiday in Canada I made similar inquiries to a local flying club regarding converting my UAE Microlight Pilot permit to a Canadian Recreational Pilot Permit. Whether you will be looking for an Ultralight permit or a Recreational Pilot Permit, there should be little difficulty. You will be required to submit the required medical document (class 3 medical), will need to prepare for and write (and successfully pass) the Transport Canada appropriate pilot's exam, and get an endorsement from a licenced instructor for the type you will be flying. The regulations are remarkably similar and you should have little difficulty. By the way, once you're accustomed to a little snow and how to deal with it, I think you'll find Canada is a land of kindred souls especially fond of Aussies. I know when my wife and I spent a year in Australia some time ago, it was more reminiscent of a "homecoming" than a "visit". Best of luck, Dan

Thanks Greg; How about Canada? Any Skyrangers here? It is not outside the realm of possibility for me to be building a Swift or Nynja in the UAE too! Nice to hear from you, I look forward to meeting you some day. Dan

Hello all; I am a late starter to recreational flight having just earned my Microlight Pilot Permit in the United Arab Emirates this year while officially a "sextagenarian" ex-patriot Canadian. (Love that word....fella can dream, can't he?) I will spend another year in the UAE before retiring to Canada to pursue this (and other) hobbies. I am now in the search for an airplane to grow with and one which will be flown primarily from grass strips. I am reading, talking, researching and fantasizing airplanes every opportunity I get. The range of options available among "Microlight", "LSA", "Advanced Ultralight Aeroplane" and "Amateurbuilt (the latter two classes being Canadian designations) is mind-boggling. I learned to fly in an Aeroprakt A-22 (Foxbat in GB; Valor in USA) and remain in awe of the airplane. (First love?) The Skyranger and X-Air Hanuman have immense appeal as "new" machines within my budget. (Greg: if I lived Downunder I'd be knocking on your door now.) After these come a whole slew of very appealing used airpanes: Karatoos; Pelicans; the Storch variations; Avid Flyers and Kit Foxes to name a few. I fully expect that "Recreational Flying" will become my first reference as I stumble along, grinning like a fool and loving it. Dan