octave

52 minutes ago, Flying Binghi said:

“Despite nearly 100 percent of Gibraltar “fully vaccinated” in accordance with government guidelines, the nation is being locked down once again...

 

...According to reports, the number of new Chinese Virus cases in Gibraltar has increased by over 2,500 percent since June 1, which is when the country achieved a 99 percent vaccination rate...

FB you need to be a little more analytical when it comes to quoting data.   How many deaths' have there been in Gibraltar since almost full vaccination???????   When did these deaths occur with respect to the vaccine rollout?????

Flightrite I am happy for you to respond to my post in any way you like but I am interested in your use of the "caution" response.   

10 minutes ago, Flightrite said:

That one party event will give the grubby Andrews Govt plenty of fodder to keep the fear & hysteria at record levels! They'll milk it for all it's worth!

So what do you suggest, let these 6 people give it 6 people each?    You clearly believe that there is no rational reason to stem the spread. 

12 minutes ago, Flying Binghi said:

Meanwhile, journalist Avi Yemini ‘doorstops’ some journalists at work...

I am not sure what this has to do with the epidemiology.   I certainly don't approve of vilifying wider groups.   The event I think referred to here is the engagement party where 69 people gathered together.  Ignorance is no excuse as they were videoed joking about flouting the restrictions.   These individuals should not really be surprised by the reaction. As of today there are six infections associated with this event.   

Sure aggressive media interviewing is bad but this does not diminish the selfish stupid behavior, not of a whole ethnic group or religion but a bunch of selfish people.  

I am still interested in your explanation for the different trajectories of NSW and Victoria outbreak.

FB perhaps it would be interesting to consider the current situation in Australia.   We have 2 similar states NSW and Victoria.  The people of these two states are pretty similar.    Victoria at the moment is treading water at around 25 a day whilst NSW seems to be out of control.  I doubt that this is because of vitamin D.     Victoria has in recent times gone early and hard on the lockdowns and mask wearing.    Likewise WA has avoided outbreaks getting out of control.

22 minutes ago, Flying Binghi said:

As to Denmark and vitamin D. They attended to the issue over 10 years ago. Especially targeting the “dark-skinned immigrants”.

 And yet although they did better than Sweden they have done worse than Australia.  Denmark population 5,8 million and 2560 deaths, Australia population 25.8 million and 967.

1 hour ago, Flying Binghi said:

Sweden did barely any lockdowns. Actually, I don’t think they did much at all. How did they go ?

 

 

 

 

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It is not that they did not do anything. 

On 10 January 2021 Sweden implemented a temporary pandemic law, giving the government more legal powers to limit the spread of Covid-19. The law makes it possible for the government to take measures such as introducing limits on visitor numbers or opening times.

https://sweden.se/life/society/sweden-and-corona-in-brief

But how did Sweden do?  14621 deaths from a population of  10.23 million compared to Australia with 965 deaths from a population 25.8 million. 

6 minutes ago, Flying Binghi said:

Luckily in a democratic capitalist society there is enough food, and funds, to go round. And a free, and free thinking, press to be asking questions if there is not enough. Meanwhile, over in North Korea...

I don't think anyone is really saying get rid of capitalism.   There are not simply 2 choices, a fully capitalists' system where everything is determined by market forces or on the other side North Korea.  What Doherty said in the clip is  a society that's driven only by the needs of capitalism is a complete catastrophe.   The "ONLY" is the important word.    To be more specific I could say that a healthcare system ONLY driven by the needs of capitalism or the profit motive is not a good idea.  Expressing that sentiment doesn't make someone a communists.

Back to the subject.  I am sensing that you don't accept covid is a problem that needs to tackled, perhaps you could be clearer about your position. 

1 hour ago, Flying Binghi said:

then the jarring bit at the end re the world political order, or something.. ?

He says "I think we need to rethink the way society works quite frankly. I think a society that's driven only by the needs of capitalism is a complete catastrophe, it is unsustainable it is toxic"

I am guessing this is the part that is bothering you.   

In any case whatever his particular political beliefs are isn't the science and the data the important thing? If we were to completely ignore the advice of the Doherty institute would we be doing things differently now?   Is the advice from the Doherty Institute radically different from other research organizations?

13 minutes ago, Flying Binghi said:

That said, the last few minutes of this video made me sit up and go WTF...

Might be easier if you are more specific about what causes you to "sit up and WTF"

3 hours ago, Flying Binghi said:

Although, what is now showing up with the reduced critical care patient numbers that are claimed to be due to the increased vaccine rates may also be due to the reduced nocebo effect. If yer ‘believe’ the vaccine works, then it works..🤔  

 

 

Yep that is an important point.     Because the placebo or nocebo effect is well known any drug or vaccine trial minimizes this by doing a double blind trial.   The efficacy rate is determined by the  difference in infections between those who have unknowingly been given the  actual vaccine vs those give a placebo.

2 minutes ago, Flying Binghi said:

 

What yer missed is what I think is an important detail - The age spread of critical patients is now younger.

Did you read the article?  

9 minutes ago, Flying Binghi said:

Depending which source yer go to Israel now has about 80% of their critical care virus patients as being fully vaxed before getting sick. From what I can glean Israel has the highest vaccine rates of over 75% of population.

The percentage of people who are vaccinated and admitted to hospital will increase as more people are vaccinated. t is a little like saying that 95% of car accidents are wearing seat belts therefore seat belts don't  work. 

Full article A look inside Israel’s recent coronavirus outbreak

What is Israel’s post-vaccination outbreak like compared to pre-vaccination?

While vaccinated people are testing positive and being hospitalized in Israel’s delta outbreak, the current post-vaccination outbreak is only a fraction of the country’s worst pre-vaccination outbreak in January, reported The Washington Post.

• Currently, cases are less than one-tenth as many as during January’s peak.
• Hospitalizations during the current outbreaks are less than one-sixteenth of January’s peak, per The Washington Post. Put differently, Israel is currently averaging 120 weekly hospital admissions. In January, the country averaged 2,000 weekly hospital admissions.
• Most importantly, admission to intensive care units for severe COVID-19 cases is less than one-twentieth the number of admissions in January.

41 minutes ago, skippydiesel said:

Hay Marty that just briliant - I would like to pass it aground - how about the link?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnbOKH9Oe9s

10 minutes ago, onetrack said:

Spacey, it wouldn't be too hard to wire in a master isolator switch that was hidden and which prevented charging by any thief. And besides, no thief is going to bother with recharging a stolen car, they would just abandon it when the battery ran flat, and steal another one - just the same as thieves abandon ICE cars when they run out of fuel.

Not sure about other EVs but a Tesla requires your phone app or a card to do pretty much anything. I believe when teslas are stolen the recovery rate is extremely high The cars current  location is always available on the phone app.   

4 minutes ago, Keith Page said:

https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/other/californian-electric-car-users-choose-to-revert-back-to-convenient-petrol-automobiles/ar-AAM

Have a read of that link, see what you think.

That link doesn't work  I am familiar with the article though. It presents this figure  "According to this study, which looked at California EV owners specifically between 2015-2019, 18% of electric vehicle owners switched back to a gas-powered car."  

Another way of wording that statistic would that from 2015 through to 2019 82% of EV owners did not revert to internal combustion.

Plenty of ICE to EV conversions being done.  I have chatted to a few of the members of the local EV conversion group GEELONG’S SUSTAINABLE MOTOR ENTHUSIASTS 

Here a couple of their conversions.

Also plenty of companies doing it. Interview: EVolution Conversions | Melbourne-based classic-car EV Conversions

11 minutes ago, Kenlsa said:

EVs from our mainstream manufacturers would sell  a few more if they looked like cars and not squashed cockroaches 

I can't think of many common EVs that don't look like standard vehicles.   Leafs, Tesla, MG Kona etc. are pretty standard looking.

1 minute ago, spacesailor said:

Now only one person allowed to shop.

This is because a vaccinated person can still get it and in a population that has such a low vaccination rate it could still spread to vulnerable unvaccinated people.   The reality is that the way out of this is for most of the population to have an immunity.   Yes it is true that the best vaccine is not 100% effective but even at 60-80% chance of avoiding death, or a long lasting effects it is the rational decision.

If I ever get cancer I will consult an oncologist, if I have heart problems I will consult a cardiologist  Given that this is a virus I will tend to take the advice of virologists and immunologists.  The last people I would take advice from is Sky news or Fox news or the antivaxxers. 

11 minutes ago, spacesailor said:

FAT LOT OF GOOD GETTING VAXINATED DID US THEN ,.

 Spacey vaccination is not a failure.   At this point only 13.6% of the population has been vaccinated, this is not enough yet.

19 minutes ago, planesmaker said:

Octave, TGA under weekly Covid 19 vaccine safety report

Since the beginning of the vaccine rollout to 18 July 2021, over 10.1 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines have been given. The TGA has received and reviewed 399 reports of deaths in people who have recently been vaccinated and found six that were linked to immunisation. 

Deaths of people recently vaccinated people does not mean they died from it.   Many of the early vaccinations have been amongst the elderly and vulnerable.   If you vaccinate 11 million people some if those  people are going to die from unrelated causes. With a worldwide 3.6 billion vaccinations it would be difficult to conceal mass casualties.

The deaths that have occured from vaccine are from  AstraZeneca so there are choices as more Pfizer and other vaccines comes onto the scene. If you believe the risks outweigh the benefits then dont get it but why try to deter others from getting it?   You could  just enjoy the benefits of those around you being vaccinated whilst avoiding having it yourself.

My reasoning for getting vaccinated?

I would be considered to be in a category that would make it more likely that I would end up in ICU.

I travel to NZ every year to visit my son and would love to resume doing this.

My elderly mother lives interstate and since my father died she is quite lonely and we have had to cancel our last 2 trips.

I want to be able to resume an ordinary life free from isolating and cancelling things whenever there is an outbreak.

I don't want to have to worry that the next variant is the one that our vaccines don't work for.

There are approx 10000 RAAus pilots and most years several fatalities.  I accept those risks.

I don't believe anyone should be forced to be vaccinated but I am more than happy for there to be restrictions on those not vaccinated.  We already do this with schools and many jobs.  During my time in the RAAF I was required to be fully vaccinated. I have a small scar on my arm from a childhood smallpox vax, we longer need this vaccination.

4 minutes ago, skippydiesel said:

Lockdown within 24 hrs of a CV19 person being identified as active in the community

Geographic area MUST include "hotspot" and a large buffer zone eg hot spot Bondi - buffer zone ALL of Sydney Basin

Lockdown/Quarantine must be very very strict, no movement of people with the exception of truly essential workers (health/power/water/fuel/etc) and essential needs ( eg food/health/etc). 

Masks, hand washing, social distancing (now at least 2 m or better) at all times outside the home/ private car.

All social events must cease (including funeral/weddings/christenings) - for the most part these can resume as soon as lockdown opens - hopefully within 5-10 days

Severe penalties, for rule breakers, publicised with name & photo.

With luck & good public compliance, the lockdown may only last 5-10 days (not months and months)

Experience has shown that it is very difficult to maintain an airtight lockdown.   How do we prevent for example removalists traveling and spreading the virus. It is generally harder to prevent an action taking place than it is to prosecute after it has occured  As necessary as tough lockdowns are can we really continue shutting down even small areas regularly.   Are we going to compensate those people who cant work for a week or 2.   Are we going to be able maintain our economy when the counties we compete with do not have to have shutdowns?

1 minute ago, planesmaker said:

Octave, TGA website where people have to actually choose to go there to report an adverse event. It is not mandatory reporting. 

10 hours ago, planesmaker said:

The 399 that have been reported to the TGA were reported by family or close friend, or doctor of the deceased who obviously considered the link to the vaccine strong enough to report it.

Specifically where on the TGA site can I find this number?

10 hours ago, planesmaker said:

Tell them the benefit outweighs the risk!!!

 RIP fellow Australians

There have been 918 covid deaths in Australia.  There are tools we can use to prevent this happening again. We have strict and costly lockdowns or vaccines.   If you don't want to get the vaccine then that is fine with me although I cant understand why you would want to dissuade others from getting vaccinated. My covid vaccine will help protect those who either cant get the vaccine or who wont get the vaccine.

Perhaps Skippydiesel you could give us your prescription for how we should proceed.  Should we return to the 2020 way of dealing with covid?

In Australia over 11 million have been vaccinated. Worldwide 3.86 billion vaccines have been administered.  A death rate of one percent would equate to 110000 deaths in Australia alone, a little tricky to conceal I would have thought.

9 hours ago, planesmaker said:

The 399 that have been reported to the TGA were reported by family or close friend

I have to ask what is the source for this figure?

3 minutes ago, Arron25 said:

There is a much greater risk of blood clots from more common medicines like Aspro or oral contraceptive , but that of course does not maker Media Headlines so will remain unreported...

When you consider that to date 6.1 million  doses have been given in Australia it certainly compares favourably with many other activities we undertake.