octave

38 minutes ago, Flying Binghi said:

If a Tesla on fast charge draws the equivalent power of three average Australian homes then yer can see we need a lot more power supply if we intend to have all cars electric, let alone electric aircraft.

I am not sure of your figures here but accepting them for the moment,   then  a sudden mass adoption of EVS would be unsustainable but what we are really talking about is a 15 to 25 year process.   The power grid has always grown to accommodate societal changes and industry.   Norwegian electric vehicles revolution drives grid investments and managed EV charging can save millions

People seem to think that the only way EV owners charge their vehicles is through public charging.  Most EVs are charged overnight when traditionally there is a huge dip in power demand.    There is an advantage in utilizing excess supply overnight. This referred to as "filling the bath" in the power industry and is considered useful.

As I mentioned earlier my rooftop solar produces enough excess to drive a Kona EV 10000-14000km without relying on the grid so why would I pay for my daily recharge.     There is potential in Vehicle to grid technology in terms of taking back small amounts of power and paying the owner to handle peaks which would ordinarily require the services of peaker plants which are hideously expensive to run.    

If we took the view that our grid was at its maximum possible size we would stop building new houses and factories.    The growth of EVs is not so fast that we are going to suddenly hit a power crisis.   Certainly EV adoption is growing at a far slower rate than rooftop solar installations.   If you don't want to buy an EV then don't if you have no interest in alternative aviation technologies , that is absolutely fine.

deleted due to double posting 🙄

Not at al II am happy to post vast amounts of information if you like but why do you refuse to move the conversation to "off topic" rather than "recreational flying"?   

8 minutes ago, Flying Binghi said:

Heh... isn’t it funny how when reality comes along suddenly a subject becomes “off topic”....😏

 

 

 

 

.

Hey I am happy to continue here IF the members think this is a relevant conversation to have here.   The last thing I want to do is be an annoyance to the members.      So forum members and mods,  is this within the scope of this forum or not?  Should we continue drifting further from Electric Rag and Tube?  I will be guided by the forum members and mods.

By the way after I mentioned being off topic I actually did engage the your last post. 

This really should be in off topic, it is a long way from rag and tube electric.   I do take some responsibility for drift but how about we move it to a forum that is more appropriate.   Having said that..........  

37 minutes ago, Flying Binghi said:

 

OK, so, it is accepted that India is dramatically expanding its coal fired power stations..😎

No,      It is quite easy to cherry pick (on both sides) articles.

Yes, India really is moving away from coal and toward green energy

Profiling the five largest solar power plants in India

What ever the case is at India has a huge renewable sector.

Here is the 2020 breakdown of installed power capacity.  My question is, are you confidently asserting that the percentage of renewables will fall dramatically and the percentage of coal will grow dramatically in the next few years?  This is something we can look at next year and the year after.

It is quite easy to list proposed coal projects but these are up against proposed renewable projects. 5th largest installed capacity of renewable energy in the world

in this country there seems to little appetite for building new coal fired power stations.   

My wife and I recently bought Ebikes, we absolutely love them.   Still get plenty of exercise but the power assist flattens out the hills.  We  rode to our local brewery for lunch today a 20km round trip. We  often do a 40km ride. 

It is also interesting to note that petrol stations did not precede the adoption of petrol driven cars.   The demand drives to supply.      We are slow adopters here but other countries are further down the track.  The UK has 42129 connectors at 15616 locations.  10518 of these connectors are rapid chargers.

London lamp posts turned into car charging points

The fact is EVs and or hydrogen fuel cell vehicles and aircraft are coming like it or not.  I will say again, my rooftop solar sends 2MWh per annum of excess electricity back to the grid for 10 cents a Kwh.  I calculate this would drive the average EV for  between 10000 to 14000 Km This seem like an attractive saving in fuel cost (as well as oil changes brake pads and servicing.

i don't really care if people are enthusiastic or not but there are many who in a different age would be shouting from the sidelines at those idiotic Wright brothers and there stupid contraption that can barely get off the ground and will never be anything more than a novelty.

i don't own an EV yet because I am pretty hard arsed when it comes to crunching the numbers, My present  car 13 years old and in reasonable nick but has a pretty low market value, it simply makes sense to run it into the ground before purchasing something new. Meanwhile prices continue to drop and technology improves.

I did invest some money in shares in an EV company ($1800 now worth almost $1200) in Nov 2019.  I did this with rigorous research.   I know that pretty much all the major legacy car companies have given dates for the end of ICE production and we know many countries have declared future restrictions on IC vehicle sale.   The technology is improving at a great rate.   Battery tech continues to evolve.  A Tesla long range range has a greater range than my ICE vehicle. Cost is reducing.

It is easy dismiss new technology without having a poke around to see what is happening

6 minutes ago, jackc said:

 1 Nissan Leaf – a real story here in Australia

I have read this story before and yes that sucks. My understanding though is that this was eventually resolved.  Since then things have progressed.   

  Nissan Leaf owner upgrades EV battery for under $A3,500

Dozens Of Shops Are Now Replacing Nissan LEAF Batteries

BATTERY SWAP GIVES NISSAN LEAF NEW LEASE ON LIFE

13 minutes ago, jackc said:

n ADAC  report out of Europe from April 2018 found that equivalent EVs and petrol cars broke even on CO2 (on a lifecycle basis) at about 116,000 kilometres, and after that, EVs crept ahead. 
That’s based on Germany’s grid composition. 

This article is quite critical of the ADAC report as far as I can see.   It is also 5 years old and the energy mix continues to evolve.   

54 minutes ago, onetrack said:

Octave, the simple problem remains that every EV system supporter merely states that charging points will be everywhere - but the problem remains, that installing that massive charging network is going to cost a fortune.

We've already seen the mind-boggling cost, and cost overruns, with the NBN - where a huge 120 yr old electric network had to be ripped up and replaced with a fibre optic network.

But the copper phone network was already largely installed in our infrastructure - a charging network needs to be added to our infrastructure. 

I could well imagine the disruption caused by ripping up every shopper carpark to install a sizeable charging network - along with transformers, and all the other associated apparatus needed as well.

I think a lot of thought and planning needs to be put into this setting out of a charging network, so it proceeds with smoothness and integrated planning, and doesn't cause major disruption to many areas.

Yet it is being done. The difference  between nbn  and a charging network is that the cabling is largely there  at least in the city and often alongside highways. Shopping centrer  near me already have chargers installed. But again why charge at a public charge station when you can charge much cheaper and conveniently overnight for your weekly drive.

I was reading recently about early cars in the US. Motorists bought fuel at the drug store. There was no network at the time.

5 minutes ago, onetrack said:

Yes, a lot of people will have a charge point at home - but they have to get home, first!

Other than on road trips there is no need to charge at a station unless you don't have your own charger. My son drives his car into the garage and plugs it in to charge overnight (doesn't need to do this every night) The car then automatically  charges on a low tariff.   Just like in our aircraft we don't always lug around a full tank of fuel but we do manage it.     I cant thin of many occasions when I have driven into at petrol station nearly empty.

Norway is well ahead of us in EVs on the road so it is not uncharted territory.   We do tend to try to fit this new technology into our old framework of refueling.   EV drivers don't fill up every Tuesday but they tend to keep it charged at their own "petrol bowers" equivalent 

The nature of refueling when out will and is changing. Instead of a petrol station being the only place to refuel this will be able to be done at shopping Centre carparks café restaurants hotels motels etc.

5 hours ago, turboplanner said:

The balancing act is: Power Demand vs Battery Capacity; If you want to exponentially maximise one the price is that you exponentially minimise the other.

My experience is of my sons Tesla 3, yes of course you will reduce the range with crazy take offs etc, but not to the degree that some believe.    My son participates in motor sport and owns a couple of ICE race cars but his daily drive is a Tesla 3 AWD.   He does drive it pretty hard.  He has even had it on the track.    I do take the point that driving an EV aggressively will certainly reduce the range but modern EVs at the higher end of the market have plenty on battery range.  A lot of information that the critics of EVs use is quite old

5 hours ago, turboplanner said:

BexRbetter

I do come across BexRbetter form time to time and a facebook group called Electric Vehicles for Australia, he posts occasionally., it appears that he sells EVs

5 hours ago, turboplanner said:

Suddenly a battery warning came

 Not sure what EV this was but this is not really how they work these days, you don't suddenly get a light telling you you are about to run out of power.  I have driven my sons Tesla around a good deal of New Zealand and it honestly was not challenging with regards to range and charging (75KWh battery).  

1 hour ago, walrus said:

I own two diesel land cruisers. I am quite happy to have an electric version in future provided two things are dealt with:

 

1. Range. I can currently travel melbourne - sydney without refueling, or Melbourne - broken hill, or broken hill - arkaroola, etc If I can’t have the same range, electric is no use to me.’

 

2. Charging time and available infrastructure. Exactly who is going to provide charging infrastructure in outback Australia and how are they going to do it? Think - ten to twenty camping caravanning or trailer rigs per day requiring 1500km + charges. - and that’s just for arkaroola or innamincka and suchlike.

I would say that at this point an EV would not be the ideal car to suit your purposes (but they are coming).  No many cars, whether ICE or EV are suitable for every purpose. I would certainly not drive my old ICE Ford Focus through central Australia.    I also would not drive non stop from Melbourne to Sydney and I imagine most people don't but if that is important then sure stick to ICE until an EV with equivalent performance comes along and even then the choice will most likely be yours for the foreseeable future.

The charging infrastructure in many parts of Australia is better than many people think https://myelectriccar.com.au/charge-stations-in-australia/`    It is possible to travel around Australia even central Australia although I do accept that at this stage it requires forward planning so would not suit everyone.  

In terms of who is providing charging infrastructure there are quite a few companies as well as the NRMA, even oil companies are starting charging networks  https://www.caltex.com.au/our-solutions/fuels/evie    https://techau.com.au/first-bp-now-shell-are-in-the-electric-vehicle-recharge-game/  Whilst many would consider the network not good enough now the trajectory

I don't own an EV but will certainly consider it my my present car dies.    As I have mentioned before my rooftop solar produces a reliable excess of electricity that I sell back to the grid for bugger all, in fact it is enough to drive a Kona EV for 14000km each year essentially for free.

Picture below is my son and his Tesla at a motorsport event.

It is quite fair to question the qualifications of the author of any opinion or pronouncement on all sides of the debate. 

4 minutes ago, turboplanner said:

Fuel cells are old technology.

 That couldn't be more wrong, well I guess they have been around a long time if that is what you mean but if you are implying old as in no longer used that is a different matter.  From space to energy storage to new vehicles such as the Toyota Mirai fuel cells are being used now.     For a detailed and academic deep dive into the technology try   https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/engineering/hydrogen-energy-storage     

6 minutes ago, turboplanner said:

Hydrogen? How is power generated with hydrogen?

Hydrogen fuel cells

How Hydrogen Energy Storage Works

My rooftop solar generated 6.4 MWh last year of which I used 4.3 MWh this leaves a little over 2 MWh that I sell back to the grid.    2 MWh would drive a Kona EV for approximately 14000km. 

8 minutes ago, Garfly said:

This new video is a bit long winded but densely argued and well made. (You could skip the first 5 mins which is just getting the basics out of the way.)

 

 

 

What a coincidence, I was watching this very clip at the moment you posted this link

I am happy to engage with you in the off topic forum.  You surely must be aware that this is a flying forum and that through past experience you are surely aware that many members do not want to talk politics here, out of respect for them why not continue in the appropriate forum.   Your post above is purely political and doesn't even relate even in a vague way to the original subject.

I think there is a place for this discussion but it is in the off topic forum, not here. 

Whether or not their deaths were a direct cause or a secondary cause (some of the 5 suffered heart attacks)   you surely don't support the violence do you?  There is certainly enough footage people being beaten with flag poles etc.

You seem to question whether it constituted a storming.   There is plenty of footage of windows being smashed and the idiots climbing though.    If you think that event was justified then we probably have nothing more to discuss.

8 minutes ago, Flying Binghi said:

“Storming”.......?

So what word would you be more comfortable using?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEEEMB0c5So

Hang Mike Pence?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gr1zP1xP63g

So you have no problem with the storming of the Capitol building?    Trump lost.  Usually the person who loses does so with dignity and humility.   Trump and his supporters should dry their eyes and focus on the future rather than trying to rewrite the past. 

What happened on that day was certainly not good for democracy and surely  should  be condemned. 

8 minutes ago, Flying Binghi said:

Not much of an insurrection. None of the people arrested had a gun. One unfortunate unarmed girl got shot dead by police...

 5 people died including a policeman who was struck in the head with a fire extinguisher.     The heart of government was stormed and the democratic process was temporally impeded.    

President Trump claims injecting people with disinfectant could treat coronavirus

2 minutes ago, F10 said:

You mean like he was totally wrong when he said this virus originated in China and it originated in a lab

\

That has not been determined.