Pearo

There was a bit of discussion on another thread regarding IFR hours required for Angel Flights. I sent to Angel Flight Australia for clarification, and got permission to post the response.

I get what you are saying, my preference these days is to avoid Class G in that area also. But first time into YBCG I think Class G into Class C CTR is the easiest way. I also think the practice in managing radios in Jacobs Well to Southport area whilst you have an instructor in the right seat is to valuable to avoid.

Yup, other than getting a code its not a lot different to Archerfield. Your next nav into Class C will probably have you departing into Class C also, so a bit more work with airways clearances and depature reports etc. BTW, pretty sure the AIP ENR says you should report DUAL or SOLO when training. Also, try make yourself familiar with the airport. I use the DAP charts when available, and if I am not familiar with the airport I tend to write down the probable taxi instruction before hand, then as the controller is reading I will just cross off the parts they dont say. That super long taxi call you get when departing south at Archerfield taught me that trick!

Going to disagree with you Aldo, flying into GC at 1500 is more predictable and a lot less workload a student venturing into Class C for the first time. I think the instructor will have something to say about that too. I did a similar trip as student (went YBAF, JCW VOR when it was working, Q1) on my first nav into YBCG and I was overwhelmed. Going in at 5500 would have been way to much.

You need to request a code from Brisbane Centre prior to the reporting point at the Gold Coast. On the Sprinbrook sector frequency (this will be in ERSA and your VTC, from memory 119.5) all you do is call up Brisbane Centre and say "Brisbane Center, Alpha Bravo Charlie Cessna 172 at Jacobs Well, 1500 to Gold Coast". I always tack on request code, but that part is not necessary because they have your flight plan and know your intentions. Brisbane centre will reply with "Squawk 1234 remain outside controlled airspace" and you will read back exactly that, then enter the code into your transponder. Once you have set your code and once Brisbane Centre has identified you on the radar, they will call you "Alpha Bravo Charlie, Identified 2 mile south east of Jacobs Well report altitude" and you will respond "1500 Alpha Bravo Charlie". Then Brisbane Centre will respond with the instructions about contacting Gold Coast Tower at Q1. At Q1, its the same process as Class D. What Aldo says is what I would do now, but for training purposes its best to keep it simple. I also thing the Class G at Southport is valuable experience as a student, especially with an instructor next to you. Also, getting clearance into Brisbane airspace is rare for GA. i have been refused more times that I have been cleared! NOTE THIS. In Class D and C, the tower provides separation. Class C, separation is provided with SSR, Class D, separation is procedural (ie they dont have you on a radar screen). As a VFR aircraft, separation is ultimately your responsibility because you can fly anywhere you want, ATC only provide you with traffic information to assist in separation. Positive separation is only provided to IFR aircraft, because they fly set routes in the sky.

You'll be fine. What you miss your instructor will help out with, and no doubt you will get a second nav into Class Charlie. There is lots of traffic around Southport, so make sure you tune into the relevant CTAF's and keep a good eye open for traffic. Just remember, get your code on the Springbrook Frequency (119.5 IIRC, but please check that) not 125.7. I normally get my code around jacobs well area. ATC will tell you to contact tower at Q1. Given the amount of RPT flying into the Gold Coast now, be ready to do some orbit's at Q1. Pack your camera, and if you get stuck doing a couple of orbits, get your instructor to fly one and take some photo's! Also worth packing your camera to get some pics on the ground of you tangling with the big boys on the field! Gold Coast is a great place to fly into.

Funny you mention the weight thing, because I noticed that also. But when I went I did my first solo, I remember the instructor telling me to make it a full stop this time, and in my head I was thinking that he was about to make me do a practice aborted take-off. So as I taxied off the runway to go back to the threshold, he jumped out and said off you go! I dont think the gravity of it all set in for me until I was driving home. For me the first solo was a busy time mentally, and I was too focused on getting everything right.

Glad you got it working. I dont do this stuff anymore (much) but instrumentation and elec engineering is what I have done for the best part of my life, its secretly pleasing when I see this stuff working given I know how complicated it is!

I am guessing they get feedback on changes from everyone. And I can tell you first hand that they get changes from pilots, because I have sent some stuff through to them before.

Midht I add aplund, whilst you are in the descision phase, get solo checked and go do some stuff, even if it's onl Not sure how you can have 10 hours IFR with the rating! I am actually going to do night VFR first, which the ATO who did my PPL test recommends. However I have started the study for the IR.

Nope, purely pleasure here. Too late for me to make a career out of it and there is not enough money in it any more. What I am aiming for, is 206/210 experience (low wing is no good for me with my leg) and an IR so I can do angel flights. I have about 60 hours left before I qualify for angel flights If you are (were) flying 2-3 times a week then you would be correct in assuming RPL is a waste of time. How many nav's were you doing a week though? Numbers are not adding up here. Should be about 10 navs including pre-test, at 2-3 flights a week that is only 3-4 weeks. Time between flights is a killer when training, as I found out.

Just checked my logbook, I had 56.3 PIC on the date of the PPL test. Worth noting, that my training was interrupted too, 1st time due to a trail bike crash, second time due to hitting a kangaroo on the road bike! I did my first circuit solo 3 times! I agree that the standards are the same for PPL and RPL, however when it came to doing nav's and the PPL test, simple things like holding alt's and not busting airspace, correctly trimming the aircraft etc where all second nature, leaving me to focus on learning the other parts. This is where it makes a difference. BUT, if you can do all that, and do it well then the RPL step is a waste of time, and some people are just gifted with the skill of flying. I could do all those things, but I had to think about it. Now its motor skill, i just do it and not think about it. As I said earlier, it was a huge confidence builder for me also.

As I was hinting at earlier, depends on your level of confidence. I would never have passed the PPL without doing the RPL (or GFPT when I started). I was chatting with a couple of my past instructors today, they were talking about how students perform. I asked how I went compared to others and was pleased to hear that I did well. One of the instructors I flew with during my nav's said all the PIC I had as an RPL made a huge difference. They got to know me, and got to know my personality, and they guided me through my training. So what may work for some, may not work for others. Aplund sounds like one of those students that excels and will pass the PPL with ease. I on the other hand was scared of flying on commercial aircraft prior to learning to fly, so I was on the other end of the spectrum. In my case, the RPL provided me with an interim step to gain confidence. Just remember, no to people are the same.

Maybe the flight school wants you to pass, and is trying to provide you with the best chances of passing.

I was about to pipe up (thinking it was a pilot boat) and say that I have been in much worse conditions in the ocean.... then I spotted the helicopter trying to land. Respect.

Aplund, we have all given you our opinion, and the pro's and cons. We cant tell you what to do.

Can confirm that everything you do in the RPL test is repeated in the PPL. I just checked my log book and I have 1.2 hours for the RPL (including transit to the training area of course) and PPL I have 3.0hrs My PPL practical test was Redcliffe, Archerfield, Toowoomba, Sunshine Coast, Redcliffe. Of course I did not fly that route, because there was a diversion and low level diversion in that, and after the diversion there was aerial work (including a stall under the hood, can you pick the ATO!?). Will the PPL test be easier if you do your RPL first? Depends. As I neared the PPL test, I spend a good ten hours solo under my RPL privileges going out to the training area practicing my aerial work. I did a nav, then did a private hire and did forced lands/ stalls/ steep turns etc. Before my pre-test I went and did all my aerial work solo, aside from the IF. When I did the PPL test, aerial work was the least of my worries and all I had to focus on was the nav/cta stuff. From what I have been told, at the pre-test a lot of students fail because of the aerial work, but that will be addressed and you will probably do an hour or so to fix that then get recommended for your test. If you are confident, then dont worry about the RPL. Aplund, just think of it from the instructors point of view. I sit there on a regular basis in the offfice at Redcliffe and have had seen a lot of AAA students come through the door recently. Our instructors have never flow with the students and are not aware of where they are in their training. So for the instructors at the new school, until they gauge where you are in your training they will treat you as if you are starting from scratch. The instructors need to know that you are not going to kill them or yourself. Once they understand where you are in your training, everything will revert to normal.

I did the RPL -> PPL route. Was it better? I think so, because I did a heap of solo flying before and in between navs, so the aircraft handling part of my training was solid before dealing with learning navigation.. However, if you think you are in a position to continue with PPL, then that may well be the best way for you personally. BTW, is used my RPL to do 50 laps of moreton island and the glass house mountains with friends and family! By the time I sat my PPL test I probably had about 50 hours PIC!

Nope, the 172 as per the one that was responsible for this post. First one made in 1955 and something like 43000+ built to date.

Going to change my aforementioned statement, Dont touch the prop until you understand the aircraft systems.

But do you feel qualified to pass judgement on the most produced 60 year old aircraft?

VET fee and hecs is a joke. Look at America and its crippling student debts. Best way to turn a smart country stupid. I was lucky, when I was studying my degree, my employer footed the bill provided I passed each subject. Saved me a massive HECS debt.

Had a look at IVW yesterday. Its been pulled down for repairs. Only real damage is too the prop (and of course that means the engine has to be replaced) and the left outer wingtip. Prop, engine and wing have been removed for repair/replacement. Under carriage all looks good, but I am guessing will be stripped down and checked at some point. Pilot (singular) walked away with no injuries.

May I add to that, never turn a prop unless you have been taught proper technique. Even if the electrics are turned off, it will still fire. And even thought the mags grounded, a faulty ground is possible. Never become complacent.

I am skeptical about this given my knowledge of metallurgy. Is there any reports on this? I rack my brain on a regular basis on how shock cooling can be an actual thing, especially in all cast engines such as the lycoming's. Whilst not entirely the same, the number of air cooled motorcycles I have driven straight into water over the years (exluding the torrential rainfalls of the sub tropics) and yet I have never experienced any cylinder or head cracking. In this case, the temp differentials are greater than that of an aircraft because I dont have the benefit of a big fan or relative airflow. Anyway, taking the thread off topic, but I think it might be a myth. I would be looking at other issues such as detonation or overheating.