deadstick

Biggle, I too have this system although I am yet to fit it I have researched it and its great bang for buck.

Sorry for the late reply I will get the guys number and PM you.

New manifold inbound I was complaining about the same fueling issues with Jab the other day and offered to do some work towards a fuel injection system after they stated that they could not get the Rhotec system to work properly, anyway got talking with one of the design engineers who stated that they will have a new intake manifold system ready for trial next month and I could have one to test. I am in the process of fitting a MGL 12 channel EGT/CHT guage and sensors so will be able to check the spread and see if it improves. will let you's know how I go. DK

Yep your right I beleive it has slightly less reliability than the 912 and is dearer and more maintenance intensive. Interesting it may be but a NZ chap was telling me the other day that Jabiru engine owners over there are using forged pistons and a coating in the bore as well as fuel injection and seeing solid increases in power, efficiency and reliability, one thing I noticed and rectified in mine when I rebuilt it at 200 hours was the inlet and exhaust runners were poorly machined and missmatched in diameter from head to head, a quick clean up with the die grinder and some blueprinting on volume (cc) and I have noticed the engine responds better to power changes than others I have flown.

Hey JETJR gotta say the 914 would kick the 3300's ****, the 3300 is rated at 120hp at 3300rpm, static you see 2800-2900 and in flight you can get 3300 but not without reaching the VNE or exceeding penetration speed and with alt you lose what you have, the 914 being forced does not suffer from the humidity, altitude and temp power drains as much so at 115hp rated I think you are more likely to get what you are quoted power wise I would love to have a certified In flight adjustable prop so I can utilise the full potential of my 3300 but that another dream I suppose i_dunno

Technique and rules of nav are tried and tested and often made after learning the hard way, that being said before any nav test on pilots course I would get a visual of the turn points and run in to the target with google earth you can move the point of view down to any height and it gives you the terrain picture, helped me out heaps but its only a prep tool and not a source of navigation. DK

Another one bites the dust Another local Jab 160 has shat an engine, which was a replacement for another dead engine, it had 25 hours on it and guess what? the oil in the pan looked like gold flake, full of brass with a bit of ferrous as well. Rod at Jab was informed to which the responce was it will be alright and will run fine. well the owner elected to find the cause and low and behold the hard facing was worn off the cam lobes and two had gouges in them. I am really starting to question the legitimacy of this company, I was told when my 3300 was blowing smoke from the breather that it is fine and I can fly like that till TBO (230 hrs), not sure what planet these guys are from but the strip down proved to be anything but a serviceable engine, I don't understand what is going on here as all these incidents get reported yet there seem's to be no action against them, why is this? how can the engine be certified? anyone?

Gents I posted a scan here: http://www.recreationalflying.com/forum/jabiru/109203-pilots-lames-comments-jabiru-j160-5.html just copy the pic to your desktop and then enlarge. post #48 4APLAT got your PM and this was at your request...

Uploaded page Had a request from a french user to upload the page so here it is.

Hey Yenn, the latest CASA flight safety mag has 6 jabiru engine failures listed for the month, page 37 interesting to see the through bolts still failing. 1 at 360 hrs and the other at 992...

Yenn, Info from Jabs website in ref to serial number significance... JABIRU ENGINES SUMMARY OF SIGNIFICANT ENGINE CHANGES – MAY ‘09 For Dealers and Maintenance Persons Information 2200 3300 Economy Tuning 1883 - 722 - Current Jabiru Engine Bulletin JSB 018-2 May ‘09 Gasket Less Exhaust 1597 - 562 - Keyed Crankshaft 2058 - 837 - Flywheel attachment JSB 012-1 June ‘06 Prop Installation Maintenance JSB 014-1 August ‘06 Crankshaft Dowel Modification Procedure AVDALSR038-1 January ‘07 Extractor System Exhaust 757 - Crankshaft/Flywheel Attachment Changed 2732 - 1522 - Hydraulic Lifters (High Leak Lifters Std Cam) 2068 – 2849 961 - 1683 Hydraulic Lifters (Slow Leak Lifters 285o Cam) 2850 - 3094 1684 - 1900 Hydraulic Lifters (Slow Leak Type 260o Cam) 3095 - 1901 - Modified Carby Needle Fitted by Factory 2920 - Wasn’t necessary unless using 2.90 needle jet Modified Tuning according to Bulletin JSB 018-1 Fitted by Factory 2850 - Tuning as per Bulletin had been fitted from S/N 914 on before Bulletin Issue Rocker/Valve Chest Venting 2068 - 2439 2200 Rocker Chamber Vent JSB 013-1 August ‘06 Sump Change Deeper 2553 - Increased Torque at Flywheel 18 ft/lb to 24 ft/lb 2103 - 857 - Oil Pump Spacer Plate 1958 - 795 - Jabiru Oil Pump JSB 004-2 December ‘04 Sump Extra Cap Screw(s) within Dizzy Case 1400 - 792 - Removed 2553 - Around 1196-not confirmed Larger Starter Ring Gear and Mount Plate 2087 - 857 - Fine Finned Heads 2553 - 961 - Increased Fuel Cut Off Seat (2.4mm) 1420 - Ignition Leads Black, Spiral Wound 2552 - 1206 - Changed Oil to Heads Routing 2553 - 961 - 6 Cylinder Alternators 2662 - 164 - Rockers Widened Contact Area to Suit Fine Finned Heads 2553 - 961 - Slimline Bridging Washer (use of 5/16 x 1 ¾ Cap Screw) 1669 - 572 - 3 Hole Intake Gaskets 01 – 2146 01 - 876 2 Hole Intake Gaskets 2147 - 877 - Vac Drive Change at Flywheel 2732 - 1522 - Conrods Alloy 01 - 436 3 Phrase Alterators 01 – 163 Std Cylinder Length of 107.00mm 832 - 154 Steel Conrods 437 - 01 – 11 steel capped alloy type 12 - Oil Pump All 2200 should use 14mm type All pumps 20mm wide Carbies 01-698 – 32mm type 699- 40mm type All 40mm type Flywheel Attachment 1/4 attachment 01 – 436 5/16 attachment 437 - All 5/16 sized attachment Oil Pump Pick Up Tube From 43-307 to be pinned No requirement all pick ups captured Alloy Rods on engines to be converted to steel type on overhaul. Hollow Cams not for re-use. Camshafts on 2200 Engines 01 – 377 unable to be used when steel rods are substituted Starter Motors 01 – 659 type no longer used 660 – 1468 Bosch type 1469 - Nippon Denso type 01 – 58 type no longer used 59 – 509 Bosch type 510 - Nippon Denso type Pushrods Solid Lifter Engines are 212mm long Hydraulic Lifter Engines are 216mm long NOTES HEADS: The multi-finned type used a different (longer) oil feed line from the crankcase. Valves were spaced further apart so rockers and rocker covers were changed. Head bolt washers were altered in shape for both engines. Rockers are available for using in multifinned heads on solid lifter engines. FLYWHEELS: The new type attachment incorporated a metal “spider” for attachment to crankshaft. Attachment bolts were now 1” x 5/16 UNF, not the usual 1 1/4” x 5/16. The dowel pins were then 20mm instead of the previous style in the dowelled crank at 24mm. In the new arrangement, the vac drive is a plug in machined aluminium type. Ring gear went from 99 teeth to 101. Increased torque on 5/16 cap screws went from 18 ft/lb to 24 ft/lb and loctite 620 used. CAMSHAFTS: Identification by 1 ring close to the oil pump is the 285o type, 2 rings identify the 260o type. Only visible out of the engine. Modified lifters used in standard cam only. Standard cam no “ring” identifier. Later camshafts have been revisited with extra attention to hardening. TUNING: The 4 cylinder engines with 290/245 jetting initially ran “rough” at idle. The cure was a slightly changed needle to affect a smoother idle. There is a possibility in hot climates the 2.90 needle jet may run too rich, low EGT’s and lack of performance. HEADS: 2200 01 – 56 Small heads, small valves, head gasket 57 – 224 Larger finned, J style, small valves to 153 255 – 644 Symmetrical, large valves 645 – 709 High top finned, large valves 710 – 2552 Large finned, large valves 2553 - Fine finned, large heads Combustion chamber change from S/N 1004. Head bolt sizes had changes. All previous head to 2553 are no longer in production. Rocker type to fit all but last 2 head types no longer in production. 3300 01 – 47 Small finned heads 48 – 223 High top finned, widened seats 224 – 960 New chamber 961 - Fine finned Combustion chamber change from S/N 224. All 3300 had large valves. Heads of fine finned now only produced. Head types have changed bolt lengths. All Bulletins for Jabiru Engines are available on the website www.jabiru.net.au Don Richter Jabiru Engine Division

Hey Yenn, the serial number will tell you what the mod state of the engine is, (ie old style heads, pistons, rings, rockers, etc) I am speaking from experience I have rebuilt my, 3300 in my J230 (08 model) and maintain 160's 170's and 230's plus mutiple more types. I hope the dig (highlighted red) above was not aimed at me? as statistics don't lie, jab engines are failing all the time and not too many make TBO, a 160 we had here, had the cylinder fly off and then the brand new replacement engine failed as well, (was at another place at the time). The other 160 I just sent the engine back to jab as it lost compression in 1,2 and 3 cylinders after being rebuilt for the same problem 400 hours ago, my 3300 needed top end rebuild at 230 hours all the engines suffer badly from icing and poor mixture distribution across the cylinders (injection would help). If you dont hear about too many of them failing, where do you live? it is documented world wide! do you have any experience maintaining them or flying them? as far as being a professional Jab knocker I don't see how, I just relay information first hand, and Jab are fully aware of the engines short comings (from a jabiru technician)! Who also said they are looking at fixing the cylinder/ring problem. So anything else as you advised I am running that plane and that engine!!!:black_eye:

160 Hey mate, pay very close attention to the engine in perticular serial number and check what revision state it is, as there have been a lot of revisions to fix little problems. Next is to have an indipendant L2 or Lame conduct an inspection scrutinise the leakdown results for any indication of compression loss and look at the external underside of fuselage for oil, these cylinder and ring combo's love to blow by into the sump sending oil out the breather into the catch can (usually the first sign of a cylinder issue) causing flow on problems that excellerate exponentially until low compression. Other than crap cylinders/rings combo the other killers of jab engines is poor mixture spread and heat in the heads. The fuselage is usually fine but the engine is what will let you down if not payed enough attention, alot enough funds to overhaul the top end at any time and you should be fine.

Has anyone heard of a new engine that Jab is currently developing? I was told yesterday by an ex Jab technician that they are working on one.. Fuel injection? surely!

Gday Jack, by dome do you mean the dish in the piston? are they flat top pistons now? Mine is an 08 model 3300. A picture of a piston prior to my overhaul is here: post 5 http://www.recreationalflying.com/forum/jabiru/98599-3300-cylinders.html This was after a mere 230 hours and as I said the bores and piston skirt's were badly scuffed. Also the exhaust pushrod was eating its way into the rocker (hydraulic lifters) and was going to cause a real bad day prior to reaching TBO. I just don't get it, the bottom end seems fine but its the top end and carburation that is letting them down, if Jab were serious about the customer they would offer a fuel injection solution (they have purchased one of the RO-TEK units) and a better prop (only has to be an option). One of the jab reps at Temora told a friend that they wont certify another prop as they make too much money out of propellers, that attitude is what is earning them the rep. All the Jabs down here suffer from carb icing and different CHT and EGT per cylinder and Jabiru engine department have told me they are aware of the CHT and EGT problem but could only suggest moving the one thermocouple around till I find the hottest CHT and use that from then on. If its such a well known problem I would think they would fit a 6 CHT/EGT monitor as standard, I am currently researching one at the moment and looking at the MGL units. A certified 3 blad prop ould be a dream on the 3300 and inflight adjustable:clap:

Hey Jack, I am hearing what your saying and they were installed as per jab manual but every engine builder I speak to including those that rebuild 2200s and 3300s both overseas and here, are saying they are fitted incorrectly. One local gent has built three 2200s now with pistons reversed, no probs so far and he say's they are quiter. I was also speaking with a KIWI the other day who was telling me that the standard pistons are being ditched in favour of forged items over there. I am not sure about others but all the Jab engines down here do not make the slated TBO with mine spitting the biscuit at 230 hrs, and on dissasembly it had advanced scuff on the pistons and bores. Locally they are developing a bit of a rep for unreliabilty to the point people don't fly over tiger country without a paddock to FL in. would be agreat little plane with a 914 rotax LOL

Another thing why would you design an engine with a cylinder and piston at its max oversize and then pick a generic piston and not a forged one, I recieved a piston today that was 5 grams lightr than the others and they have gone to circlips instead of the round wire type, what the? I am advised that the circlip design is prone to failure, why is Jab so reluctant to tell us why they change design?

Yeah legally I have assembled per spec as its cert, But the whole thrust thing from Jab I dont get it? its more to do with rotation of the crank per power pulse, as far as I understand. I would really like to see some engineering info on the design philosophy for this plant.

Well interesting that this topic is being discussed ATM, I have recieved advice from 1 race car engine builder, 1 engine reconditioning shop owner and 1 person that has built a few jabs for people that I should reverse the pistons from what Jab says as they have it all wrong (All in one day) and after listening to the logic I think they are right. The engines that were built with the pistons reversed to Jabs manual run quieter so why have Jab done this?

Awesome vid guys, well done on the first leap Rach!

Can anyone advise how much it would cost to fully recover a Gazelle and where in NSW I could get it done?

Yeah your dads on the money Tomo, thats what I suspect and not owning the aircraft for the first 200 hours of use I cant say how it was used although the previous owner did say that itll stay in the air all day if you pull the power right back and I believe it may have been used to check the water bores on his property. The Cylinder bores showed signs of pitting indicating it may have sat unused for extended periods on regular occasions, on a side note if the rings hadn't stuck in and caused smoke I may not have caught number 2 before it spat he biscuit and the exhaust rocker on number six was being eaten by the pushrod so would have been a show stopper before the 1000 hour mark as well. A blessing in disguise perhaps? I will reserve my judgement on that one.;) DK

Carbon on pistons Heres a shot of the Carbon that has built up on the crowns of the pistons in My J230D J3300, Scary thing is, its only done 239 hours would hate to see what its like at 1000hrs, XXXX fuel at some stage or what?

Yeah, nice clubhouse mate , on par if not better than the others I have been to!

Nor did I Cameron, did you? nice little strip ya got there too by the way!