deadstick

As ultralights said in my experience it's been caused by air. Oh and once by a faulty cap.

I get the impression that LSA and below aircraft are not budgeted for in the investigating budget. I spoke personally with a defect investigation rep ( nice guy) at Casa and when I told him I was having so much trouble with my jabiru' he laughed at me! Lol. He said that very rarely does anything Raa get investigated. I guess limited manpower and resources are an issue.

Any defect report submitted to RAA is passed on to CASA, one thing and this is not an attack on RAA ( I know they are busy with other issues) is a lack of feedback on defect report results etc. I have been reporting any defect however trivial and following up with the 'jabiru investigation report' for a while. Recently I started saving RAA the paperwork hassle of receiving and passing on and now submit straight to CASA and provide details to the ACCC (at their request). CASA are great at giving feedback on this issue and provide you with an estimate for completion and progress up dates.

The 230 is a factory built D model which makes it an LSA with Jabiru as the engineering authority. The 160 is a factory built C model which means CASA are the engineering authority for modifications or changes. As I understand it

Hi Ian, could you provide details please? photo's would be much appreciated I am considering this route very seriously.

I received the following email from a jab flyer in the UK, apparently the business manager had never seen or heard about the cracking to my heads and couldn't explain it, seems it's a known problem in the UK. "Chad, sorry to hear you have had a bad time with the Jabs. My experience has been a good one as is another 10 owners i know, 3 of which are at 1500 hrs. I have 600 hrs on mine, have changed 2 valve guides and valves due to a 60/80 leak down, other than typical servicing parts no issues. I have noticed 2 heads with a hair line crack that spans from the exhaust outlet to the middle through hole in-between the valve area, but as this is the exhaust side and no seepage i just monitor it as gasses are going out of the exhaust port anyway. If it were the inlet then i would be concerned. I think this is a common fault on gen 2 heads on many jabs, assume this is what you suffered. Cheers Gary" So it appears the gen 2 heads have a known cracking issue in the UK.

Your funny, thanks for the laugh! that's genuine and not sarcasm, that first line has me in stitch's.... drop over to the jab thread I posted an independent report on the 3300 that failed in my 230, now I can understand engines will have issues.

Ouch that hurts! lol You might be on to something? do you work for Jabiru? that seems to be their official line...

Hi John, congrats on your decision to purchase a plane, I too own Jabiru aircraft a 230 and a 160, to say that my run with these aircraft has been abysmal would be an understatement to rub salt into the financial wound the factory has behaved both deceptively and arrogantly. Its easy to call me a Jab basher but my advice is based on experience I too was once passionate about the plane but it quickly changed to frustration and financial depletion as I bounced from one component failure to another. I am not alone in this position and prior to forking out your hard earned talk to lots of owners, sure there will be those with good and bad but weigh up how many bad to catastrophic experiences and you will clearly see a trend, not one owner in my previous location would purchase one again, and given the engines reputation when it comes time to sell you wont even be able to give it away ( I know). I would recommend that you very carefully consider your purchase as once its out the door in my experience the factory will be of no assistance. I am sorry to rain on your parade as they say but I wish someone had have pointed out the statistics before I blindly outlaid my cash on these aircraft. By all means PM me with your email and I will send you correspondance from the factory that may change your mind, history of both my aircraft and the latest issue, the factories theft of my property.

Sorry but I cant get the pics to upload.

Fir info here is a third party report into the final failure of my 3300 engine in my 230, the top end 1 cylinder #4) suffered an over temp in climb explaining the damage noted on the CHT monitoring system. The rest is what you can expect if you follow Jabiru's maintenance regime and advice to the letter. Sorry for the cut and paste but the report file size was too large to attach. 15th March 2013 Australian Aviation Assessors Pty Ltd 33 Ventura Rd, NORTHMEAD, NSW 2152 Jabiru 3300A Engine - Inspection Report Your Reference: AAA-0506 Our Reference: 100572 Insured: ME Introduction: We refer to your instructions dated 8th March 2013 and confirm on Tuesday 12th March 2013 the writer attended the premises of Jabiru Aircraft Pty Ltd, Bundaberg Airport, Queensland and conducted a survey of the subject Jabiru 3300A engine, serial no. 33A- 1795. The engine had previously been dismantled in the Jabiru engine shop and the major component items were laid out on a bench for ease of viewing. The components had not been cleaned and were therefore in a “dirty” state so as not to destroy the visual evidence and dismantled condition of the components. We did not have the opportunity to view the engine logbooks as they were not present with the engine. However, we were advised by the Jabiru Engineer who performed the teardown, Mr Mark Jonas that the engine was in its first life and had accumulated approximately 730 hours in service since new. Damage: Overall examination of the engine components confirmed that the “Top End” of the engine had been subjected to significant overheating and this was evidenced by burnt oil residue on all six (6) alloy cylinder head external cooling fins and also on the cooling fins on the upper part of the six (6) steel cylinder barrels (refer photographs). Compression Gas blow by was also apparent where the cylinder heads mate with the Ellis Aviation – Jabiru J230D 24-5331 - 3300A Engine (100572) 2 cylinder barrels and also at cylinder head exhaust ports and thus indicative of an overheat event. The “Bottom End” components of the engine were also examined which did not reveal any evidence of overheating. Cylinder Heads (Photographs No.2 & 3) Examination of all the cylinder heads revealed that the valve inserts were still intact and had not started to creep out from their recess in the head. Jabiru advised that the valve seats start to move out of their recess when the temperature exceeds 250°C. It is therefore apparent that the overheat condition on the subject flight was less than 250°C. Nevertheless, it is understood from information supplied to Jabiru by the Owner that the temperature on the occasion reached 180°C or more and thus Jabiru consider the heads and valves to be scrap. Cylinder Barrels (Photographs No.4 & 5) Examination of all six (6) Cylinder Barrels revealed that they had significant vertical score marks on the inner circumference or walls of the Barrels and this is believed to have been caused by normal piston/ring movement within Barrels. Whilst the scoring is significant it is believed to be the result of wear and tear. Pistons (photograph No. 6 & 7) The six (6) Pistons were examined and they likewise displayed evidence of burnt oil residue in the region of the upper ring lands and skirts confirming that they had been operating in a high temperature environment. However, the two (2) piston compression rings and one (1) oil control ring on each piston were free to move and were not stuck in their grooves as often is the case if the burnt oil residue is significant. Camshaft & Cam Followers (Photographs No. 8 - 11) The Camshaft Lobes were all displaying signs of fretting at the apex of the Lobe. Similarly, the mating Cam Followers were also displaying evidence of fretting at the surface where it mates with the matching Lobe . The damage to the Camshaft and Cam Followers is consistent with wear and tear and unrelated to the overheat event. Crankshaft, Crankcase & Bearings (Photographs No.12 - 16) Examination of the Crankshaft and two alloy Crankcase halves and the matching main bearing shells contained within the crankcase halves revealed unusual wear to the crankshaft bearing journal surfaces in the nature of a significant score mark at the centre of each journal. This score mark matched the centre oil grove in the mating bearing shells. There was also evidence of fretting on the mating surfaces of the crankcase halves. Jabiru has suggested that the adverse wear to the Crankshaft journals has been caused by an initial loss of torque on the through bolts resulting in fretting of the Case halves and a loss of material. Hence when the through bolts were subsequently replaced with modified bolts in accordance with a Jabiru Service Bulletin the increased torque setting Ellis Aviation – Jabiru J230D 24-5331 - 3300A Engine (100572) 3 on the bolts caused a reduction in main bearing clearance. The preferred bearing clearance is 0.05 mm. The minimum clearance is 0.04 mm. The measured clearance at disassembly was found to be less than 0.04 mm and that this has resulted in excessive bearing preload and wear to the crankshaft journals. The writer tends to agree with this scenario. The damage occasioned to the crankshaft, bearings and crankcase is therefore unrelated to the engine over temperature event. Repair Cost Estimate: Jabiru Aircraft has supplied us with a Quotation and breakdown of the parts required (attached) to undertake a full repair and overhaul of the engine in the sum of $18,081.00 (GST inclusive). This compares with an earlier quotation for a new replacement engine at $18,590.00 (GST inclusive). Recommendations: As a result of our examination of the subject engine and components we recommend that the damage resulting from the engine overheat event is limited to the following:  Cylinder Head assemblies, including valves, guides and spark plugs  Cylinder Barrels, upper regions, but because of significant wear & tear scoring of cylinder walls allow 50% of replacement costs.  Piston assemblies and Ring sets. We have reviewed the Jabiru repair quotation and have identified those items we believe would be related to the overheat event, which we have marked with a tick. In addition we suggest allow 50% of the cost of the Cylinder barrels plus 50% of the Labour charges to perform the repair and rebuild of the engine. These adjustments give an amount of $9,704.36 (GST inclusive) as being the cost to reinstate the components/damage resulting from the overheat condition. If the GST component is deducted the net amount is $8,822.15. Remarks: We submit this report for your consideration and await your further instructions. Michael Ellis Manager, Australasia-Pacific Attachment(s): Photographs Jabiru Aircraft Quotation

Hi Camel, CASA are aware as I lodged a defect report. Camit are also aware as I sent them the pics and history (they were very thankful as Jab hadn't provided any defect reports for over a year) also they are a great company to deal with! I have personally sent many defect reports to RAA, I know they are busy but you never get any feedback or update on trends, CASA on the other hand, the section head of the defect investigation, emailed me with a copy of the defect report and an estimated time of completion. (think they might be looking into it). Further he said that they generally don't investigate RAA failures unless there is a large trend developing.

Ladies and gents, I would like to share my experience thus far with this product and the factory that makes them. I own 2 Jabirus, a 230-D and a 160-C both aircraft have been an absolute nightmare when it comes to reliability. The J230 suffered its first engine failure at 225 hours requiring a complete Top end, subsequently it suffered multiple component failures up until its final demise at 700 hrs with Jabiru admitting it was the failed thru bolt design that destroyed the bottom end and not once did they offer any support even after requests. The J160 suffered an in flight engine failure under 200 hours since the factory performed a top end overhaul( thru bolt failure)! since I have owned it three heads have failed due cracking and valve seat movement multiple other component failures and the nail in the coffin for this engine was a valve seat falling out at idle on the first pre-flight run up of the day all within 300 hrs of the Top end overhaul. The factory have not once offered to help, never shown the slightest empathy or a desire to support a customer, and display a complete disregard for factual evidence when providing an excuse why a component failed. I have been bullied, ignored and treated like a fool. Not one Jabiru engine in my local area has made the 1000 hr TBO and not one owner would purchase another Jabiru. The business manager has treated me with arrogance of the highest order and display's what I can only describe as an extremely deceptive nature. The business manager flat out refuses to return my property, and will not listen to any reason or evidentiary facts stating that they must return it. One investigation conducted by the company as to why a cylinder dropped a valve seat and had cracking, had three different conclusions over multiple days. I regret the day that I purchased both of these aircraft, they have cost me a small fortune to keep running and I warn others to do their home work thoroughly before spending your money with them.

Hi, does anyone know of and can recommend an aviation savvy goods and services lawyer? I have a major problem with an Australian aircraft and engines manufacturer and would like some legal council on my rights as a customer. Any advice or assistance welcome

One of my old flight instructors told me a story from his days flying Mig21's, he was flying at altitude and started feeling resistance against the elevator controls to the point it would jam then go past sort of like a notch, he RTB'd after a controllability check and U/S'd the aircraft for maintenance. The fault could not be replicated and the aircraft was released to service, a few days later another pilot reported the same issue, further inspections revealed nothing it wasn't until months later the aircraft in question was operating in a sub zero environment and experienced the same fault, upon RTB the maintenance staff again started investigations, this time due to the fact that it was still frozen they found that an ear plug had been freezing and jamming the controls inside the yoke assy, previously it had been freezing at altitude but had thawed during decent. Simple things!!!

Is this Jabiru's new cold start kit? LOL couldn't resist!!!

Wow, absolutely beautiful scenery.

Th Thanks for the advice and I'm already on it. Have new flywheel bolts as well as prop on the way.

Daffydd, thanks for the info and I say you may damn well be correct 'ole bean', the scenario you present of the torque slackening off fits the symptoms to a T. the aircraft has not flown a lot of hours since the prop torque check was c/o at 100 hrly but has sat for a while in inclement weather. The drive face hasn't sanded off but compressed like it swelled and pressed the drive flange into it I am suspect that it has since dried out and shrunk causing the torque loss, if the photos were clear you could see the wood has opened up rather than cracked.

Phil, out of interest whats the pitch angle set on your prop?

Cant be fitted to a C model jab, would try one for sure if it could.

I would love to throw a sensenich wood prop on but being a c model j160 Casa has the engineering authority not the factory. Anyone know of a factory built j160-c with anything other than the wood prop?

Lol, has the paper been graded teach? Can be a bit lisdexic!!!!

Hey Frank, they do a lot of hours when they can, don't think they are moisture proof possibly humidity or condensation, I had a Bantum yesterday with the Jab 2200 install that required some massaging of the solenoid before it would throw...

Well I had the chance the other day to open up the dodgy starter solenoid from my plane, the symptoms were you would press the starter button and hear a clunk but the starter would not throw. Any way underneath the two poles, they have a floating bridge that is held open under spring pressure when the solenoid is energized the main actuator pulls down and removes the spring pressure so the bridge makes connecting both poles and making the circuit between battery and starter. Due to the internal corrosion the bridge was stuck in the open position and would not drop to make the circuit. The replacement that I was sent had the opposite, the bridge stuck on withut warning suspect no spring pressure, I can still hear my arse clapping shut as the prop started spinning on its own accord without prompting!!!! might name the aircraft Christine after the possessed car.... LOL