deadstick

Turbo, I have done all the maintenance on this engine! Standard aviation practices have been used in line with jabiru's maintenance manual! Not sure where your going but the jabiru engine shop themselves stated that the 12 point nuts do a better job providing clamp down force per tq unit than the old military standard ones. As far as the scoring on the crank goes i was of the opinion that it perhaps is a by product of the overtemp causing the crank cases to expand closing the clearance, my opinion only but their belief is that its from the 12 point nuts. I am at a loss as to why you would blame the engineer? I have been in the aviation industry for over 18 years with 12 of those as a LAME, not sure why you would question the level of training to become a LAME its pretty solid and robust as far as I am concerned. As far as $2 tools goes, bit of a generalist statement dont you think? I do have one or two tools that cost that much, but hey so what? My torque wrench is calibrated regularly and prior to the install of the 12 point nuts was set and checked against a master acratorque as i and im sure you are fully aware that jabiru were blaming the broken through bolts on the "fingers" as you put it. Are you afilliated with jab? My experience dealing with them over the years has all the hallmarks of your responce "oh it must be the engineer", cant be the product! In fact there was a lot of buck passing all of which was disproven by the history on the 12 channel egt/cht guage. Fact is mate the engines are weak, they require constant maintenance, the support from the factory is poor and the quality control stinks all of which i have witnessed and experienced over the years, hey the engine shop is that snowed under and there are no new engines available which to me assists in supporting any reliability claims. Statistics around the south coast of NSW are not favorable to support any claims of reliability either. Do you think that perhaps the locktite could be acting as a lubricant prior to flashin off? I think that it a possibility.

Turbo, so its the engineers fault that installed the 12 point nuts? is that what your saying?

Turbo, not sure what your saying? Please clarify.

Hi all, one of my jab 230 engines was stripped for assesment post overtemp at jabiru, the crank showed signs of scoring and damage, the engine shops opinion was that the 12 point nut AD caused it! The reason being that they seem to think there was some chaffing of the crankcase prior and the more effective 12 point nuts clamped the cases harder against the main bearings causing the clearance to close up. The bottom end on these are supposedly able to hit 2000 hrs so something has gone wrong for this one to be showing abnormal wear at 700 me thinks, the cam and lifters were worn abnormally as well...

Oh snap! Whats being taught? Re-entry techniques or how to dock with satelites? I jest! Lol seriously though? Ha?

Crikey H..... ive got a 230 and a 160 you can hire if they paying that up there. Might have to bring them up and start my own school at that price. Be payed off in a year

I too have experienced the poor quality control from the factory,( wrong parts, unfinished parts, parts not serviceable on receipt, propellors delaminating on the test run post fitment, incorrect bolts for wings struts ETC), currently the waiting time to have an engine 'looked at' for repair is out to 12 weeks and growing with no stock of new motors until March I can only speculate it may have something to do with an inherent problem. The configuration on the engines must be getting hard to manage. As far as an alternate goes I think Brumby has the credentials to give them a run. Manufacturing your own engine in Australia would be difficult me thinks...

Hi frank, the implication is that the solonoid is always live ie it always has power to one pole and in this instance that configuration almost spelt injury due to an internal fault. Some other aircraft wiring config's have an interlock that prevent power to the solonoid pole without master on. I would never have beleived it if I hadnt seen it myself and in essence has heightened my respect for that prop arc.

Well noting there isn't a thread that helps members troubleshoot faults I thought I would start one. Probably a bit long winded this one but you will get the picture. I experienced the strangest fault recently, upon pressing the start button in one of my jabs it would throw the solenoid but with a delay, so to prevent it failing when I least wanted it too I replaced the solenoid with a new item supplied by jab. Well it would not work at all so I rang Jabiru to discuss the issue and they stated that the aircraft being a 2006 model might have a previous version of the solenoidand that an extra earth may be required, so to trouble shoot I checked all the terminals to ensure they were receiving the correct output and they were, from previous experience I thought I might just give the new solenoid a light tap to free anything that may be stuck internally and it worked the start system was fine. So the aircraft hadn't flown and I received a call from the CFI stating that he had started the aircraft and then witnessed the battery voltage drain to zero over a 3 minute period (battery dead as a door nail) so I proceeded on out to check the problem! on cowl removal I tested the Battery which was dead not even a spark if you bridge the poles, so I removed a serviceable battery from my other Jab and installed it, prior to connecting the Positive lead I asked a couple of people that had turned up to watch whilst waiting to go fly to get out of the prop arc, thank god I did!!!! After connecting the + lead and tightening the nut the solenoid took on a life of its own, the starter engaged and the prop was spinning, even though the master was off ,so I had to remove the lead. A few things to note 1.Big reminder to me to ensure people treat that prop arc with respect especially on jabiru's. 2.Solonoids are just a piece of machinery and in this wiring configuration if they fail the only way to stop the prop is to remove the positive lead, un achievable if the cowls on due to the front two cam locks. 3 If you start your jab and the battery runs to a dead condition real fast (3 minutes)suspect the starter has remained engaged. No starter light engaged indication was present on the panel..

Hi John, where are you located? sounds like you need to get the plane looked over by an L2/LAME, deletion of the stall warning is an alteration of configuration by way of a mod, this can make your aircraft unairworthy as by virtue of your registration category you cannot deviate from the original factory configuration of which is reflected in the CofA granted by CASA. To do so would require a CAR35 engineer as its not an LSA and I cant see a CAR35 signing off on a Mi n equip list item. If your close to me im happy to help get it sorted

John, whats the history of the gaz? I would be tracking the previous owner to explain where it is and why it was'nt identified on the change of registration condition report. What Registration category is it in? 24, 19 etc.

LOL, dis gunna be good!!!

This is a common problem mate, in my experience it is always in the motor, the commutator rings get dirt. If it stops working give it a hit and it will go again. Go here:- http://www.jabiru.net.au/Manuals/Aircraft%20Technical/JTM001-1_Generic_Tech_Rev1_signed.pdf#page125 Page 127, shows the problem, never had a switch fail to work, they stick but rarely fail.

Hows that 230 go Phil? Pulls like a freight train?

Well said Motz!!!

Hi TP, not sure what your saying mate!

Direct drive aero engines are designed as low stressed, high torque, low rpm and generally speaking 75% equates to 2600 rpm. These engines are designed for the aero environment and would not perform well in a car.

Maint background on this engine:last top end was done at tbo (2 before that) due nil compression. Engine performed well post overhaul and passed runin retorques and oil analysis. At 100 hrs weeping vertigrease like black sludge was found around the base of all barrels, jabiru were contacted and advice was to check torque thru bolts, nil movement evident. This was relayed to owner and jabiru, with jabiru stating the leaks are within tolerance but that if not happy the barrells could be lifted and new sealant applied with the owner electing not to do so as he had a fear of disturbing the thru bolts and believed that it would happen again. At each, service check torques were carried out with nil movement (tq wrenches set and calibrated) things to note: no indications of detonation on plugs, all leak downs good, t's and p's all within limits, and nice mixture indications on plugs. The thru bolt that failed at the base of the nut has clear fret lines. My opinion only: the shims under the barrels idea introduces another weak spot, it has sealant on both sides (not good for rigid torques) and also offers a heat sink for differing thermal expansion properties. The engine was still running when it landed, and pulling the prop through you still get 4 cylinders albeit 1 with a leak sound and slightly reduced compression. Not sure I support the detonation theory as the cast pistons are poor quality and more of a weak link, I lean towards a resonance issue with these bolts. JMHO

O/H may 2011, IIRC

Hey Vev, from prev post

Powerin, what your saying has its merits and I can tell you my 3300 has been a PITA to get the egt's within a near envelope, I recently changed the manifold to the newer design (post change EGT/CHT pic attached), I run it on the richer side in attempt to make O/H times and can say the Compressions have remained solid since I rebuilt the top end (machined close to max piston and cyl clearance) but suffered number 4 exhaust valve burn out 250 hours later. does not give me a warm and fuzzy feeling at all!

Frank, I respect and hear what you are saying.

Hi Frank, I am a Jabiru owner (J230) as well as a Licensed engineer, I am continually confronted with engine failures of the Jabiru brand and can say that the other brands pail into insignificance when compared on reliability(local snapshot). I maintain multiple types and am one of the ULPOWER service agents in NSW. I was called to diagnose the cause of the failure for this particular power plant and whilst the analysis is incomplete I can confirm that it has suffered a through bolt failure at a grand total of 270 hours post Jabiru factory overhaul! this particular unit in its current state has a total of 1370 hours and has required 3 top end overhauls in this period, the engine is of the latest incarnation (shims under the barrels to assist with detonation issues and oil fed pushrod tubes) but came out of the factory just prior to the upgraded through bolts. Whilst I have no statistics to appease your desire for thorough objective analysis. From my own observations the Jabiru range of engines suffer from poor quality control and inadequate conditioning for the Australian environment in which they are marketed for. Purely my humble observation and not intended to belittle or offend, but I can tell you the amount of time I have spent on my own 3300 to get it right (and a top end overhaul at 230 hrs) as well as the constant tinkering and failure rectification, causes me to fly from Paddock to paddock just in case! I get to relax behind the Rotax 912 in a friends A/C and enjoy flying! LOL

FT give me a break! people know the risks and its done for recreation, break the rules pay the price, its a competency based training system, even I can pretend to be a good pilot come BFR time. Yet again the actions of one are used to justify the claim that all are the same! I hate this and can respect the fact that an individual made a poor decision that was made based on facts we will never know and speaking to one of his good mates on sunday, he finds it hard to beleive this deciion was made. If you see someone who fits the poor culture tag Report them!!! You work for work cover by chance? LOL

Wtf! Only in south Africa! How many potential collisions with obstacles, can't believe all the radio masts and clutter around that field...