'Flight planned route.'

[Garfly]

This video (very hard to listen to) reminds me of a question I've often pondered (as a curious VFR only type): Why is it that, in the US, IFR clearances have to be delivered and read back in full - including complete routing details - all on frequency (ground/tower)? 

It seems that here in Oz, the route part is commonly covered by the phrase  'flight planned route'.   

How can airports - especially busy ones - tolerate the flow of their departures being slowed by such drawn out, back and forth, conversations (even when pilots are properly practiced in the art).

 

As I understand it, pre-departure clearances (PDCs) via text are coming into use both here and Stateside.  None too soon, it seems, by the evidence of this video.

 

(And the 'runway incursion' is the least of it  ;- )

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 22, 2022 by Garfly

[rgmwa]

Wonder if he ever made it. He didn't seem very confident and certainly wasn't well prepared

 

[Cyrano]

I think ATC gave them a new route to that planned (perhaps MIL airspace) thus the reason for the full readback. In AUS (including WA...! ) If the flight were as planned then only the initial waypoint that joins the airway is needed eg ATC,  "N6BX cleared to Sydney via SEDAN, flight planned route. SEDAN2 departure, climb via the SID 5,000, Squawk 3414, departure freq 118.2

You read it all back and give your parking position at the end.

If you are fancy enough to get a PDC the only readback is SID , Squawk code and parking position.

Edited May 22, 2022 by Cyrano
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[Garfly]

18 minutes ago, Cyrano said:

I think ATC gave them a new route to that planned (perhaps MIL airspace) thus the reason for the full readback. In AUS (including WA...! ) If the flight were as planned then only the initial waypoint that joins the airway is needed eg ATC,  "N6BX cleared to Sydney via SEDAN, flight planned route. SEDAN2 departure, climb via the SID 5,000, Squawk 3414, departure freq 118.2

You read it all back and give your parking position at the end.

If you are fancy enough to get a PDC the only readback is SID , Squawk code and parking position.

Thanks for the info, Cyrano.  From viewing US vids showing GA IFR ops,  I got the impression that clearance delivery/read-back with full routing is more usual than it is here.  

[facthunter]

Way back it wasn't done internally but International flights did. Changes to a clearance should be read back.  It's common to have an altitude clearance suddenly changed to a lower level. Nev

[Yenn]

I thought that via flight planned route was not used nowadays. Many years ago two aircraft flew Brisbane to Gladstone and later someone was heard talking in a pub about being in a plane and seeing another plane about a mile away , same height, same route.

The person overhearing the conversation reported it and what had happened is that one airline routed via Bundy and the other routed inland, but then amended their plan. In the air that plane was told to go as routed, but it was the wrong route. Nobody would have known anything about it, except for that overheard conversation.

[MattP]

Dpearting into c Flight planned route is generally what you'd get, with first way point as per previous. If there's a change, you'll get the amendment, e.g.

 

Xyz amended clearance moorabin, Monty, Arbey, flight planned route 5000 to get you out of the way of big stuff.

 

For departure into class g you just make a departure call airborne, first waypoint, altitude, what your climbing to and eta to the next fix.

 

In the usa its e almost everywhere so clearance required ifr.

 

I have noticed on some of the us yt videos they have airways in the read back. I normally plan with the air way but never get it in clearance. 

 

 

[turboplanner]

17 hours ago, Yenn said:

I thought that via flight planned route was not used nowadays. Many years ago two aircraft flew Brisbane to Gladstone and later someone was heard talking in a pub about being in a plane and seeing another plane about a mile away , same height, same route.

The person overhearing the conversation reported it and what had happened is that one airline routed via Bundy and the other routed inland, but then amended their plan. In the air that plane was told to go as routed, but it was the wrong route. Nobody would have known anything about it, except for that overheard conversation.

Full Reporting has not been used from around the 1980s.

We were told it was because it was to expensive, but it's more likely it was CASA throwing liability off them and on to the pilot.

As you called your reporting point "Centre" would acknowledge and the operator would move your chip (a block with your ID printed on it) into the next sector.

At 15 minutes late they would call an emergency.