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I'm going for it. RA licence coming right up. :)


Guest Cralis
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Hi guys, I've decided to go with ProSky as the school to take lessons with for my RA. I went for a TIF today, in a Tecnam Echo at Caboolture. I've mentioned pros and cons below, but I still feel like I got more from this TIF, and it just feels like what I want to do. My instructor was a guy named Paul, and here's my thoughts:

 

  • Con - The Tecnam seems a lot older and basic compared to the Jab170 I went in last time.
     
     
  • Pro - The Tecnam floats off the ground really nicely.
     
     
  • Con - The Technam doesn't have an artificial horizon! (Strange?)
     
     
  • Note sure - The Technam needs hardly any rudder input on turns compared to the Jab.
     
     
  • Pro - The Technam flies at a much high forward/nose down pitch compared to the Jab (Is that more Cessena like?)
     
     
  • Con - There was no GPS in the Technam. The Jab170 had.
     
     
  • Con - There was no way we could get full left to right aileron movement because my knee was always in the way. I'd have to manouver myself into a strange position if he needed full aileron... :raise_eyebrow:
     
     
  • Not sure - The Technam seemed easier to fly than the Jab.
     
     

 

 

So, a few questions. With th Tecnam being an easier aircraft to fly, that would be a benefit in that I can learn to fly faster - but on the downside, I'd then battle if I wanted to fly a Jab - right? Is that a problem?

 

When I was given control, he asked me to turn right towards the heads of Bribie Island. I did this, but without much (if any) rudder, yet it felt like a well co-ordinated turn. How come?

 

Safety: While we were up, and I had control, doing small turns - I assume the instructor was looking for traffic? It just seems that people can fly about in a reletivly small area - I seem to feel that a mid air is really possible. How does that work?

 

My feelings though: It was a much better flight. I had control for a lot longer.. and he gave control in a mich clearer way by first letting me feel his inputs, and then sitting back with his arms crossed, giving me ideas on what to do... 'Turn towards the field', 'Turn towards the heads', 'Fly over the runway intersection'. It was like a basic lesson, as opposed to a straigt out and straight back. I feel a lot better. Just hop you guys can answer the questions above.

 

What a flight! :)

 

And he landed like a bird with sore feet, as opposed to the two landings I got in the Jab last week. 010_chuffed.gif.c2575b31dcd1e7cce10574d86ccb2d9d.gif

 

 

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Hi Cralis,

 

Glad you liked it.

 

>Con - The Tecnam seems a lot older and basic compared to the Jab170 I went in last time.

 

I suggest you get endorsed on the Sierra as soon as you cab. I like the Echo, but the Sierra is far more sexy.

 

>Con - The Technam doesn't have an artificial horizon! (Strange?)

 

Personally I wish it did. If I ever owned a plane I'd feel much more comfortable having one. I have zero experience at instrument flight, but I'd like to think one would give me a better chance if I somehow ended up in mild IMC.

 

>Pro - The Technam flies at a much high forward/nose down pitch compared to the Jab (Is that more Cessena like?)

 

The Tecnam has a very nose-down atitude compared to a Cessna 172 - it's almost like flying downhill. My first attempts at straight and level had me climbing at 500fpm!

 

>Con - There was no GPS in the Technam. The Jab170 had.

 

The echo DOES have a gps. Just don't expect to be allowed to use it during your training.

 

>Con - There was no way we could get full left to right aileron movement because my knee was always in the way.

 

I have the same issue but it's never been a problem. If you need full aileron you're probably doing something seriously wrong.

 

Your instructor would have been keeping a very good lookout for other aircraft at all times. Obviously certain places are more dangerous to be then others - you'd be pretty unlucky to have a midair in the middle of nowhere.

 

Personally I'd say the instructor is far, far more important then the aircraft. If you get along well and like his teaching style, that's fantastic. Keep in mind you can't really compare instructors based on a single landing each, in different aircraft, in different weather conditions :)

 

Have fun learning. If you want to go for a burn in the Sierra one weekend let me know!

 

Cheers,

 

Al

 

 

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Prosky!!!!

 

Cralis,

 

Good choice, I am going through John(Crezzi) at Prosky ATM learning weightshift. I can't reccomend Zane and John enough. From the start they have been nothing but honest and helpfull an experience that was missing at the first school I approached. It is a good feeling to walk into a hangar and feel welcomed, not as if you are just there to line their pockets. All the best and I am sure I will see you around.

 

Ps-Are you flying with John or Zane?

 

 

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I thought his name was paul, but it might be John. 049_sad.gif.af5e5c0993af131d9c5bfe880fbbc2a0.gif He's there on weekends only... English guy.. Birmingham type accent. Is that John? It wasn't Zane... He just chatted to me before and after the flight.

 

Al, are you based at Caboolture? Any option to get into the air is welcome! :) I'm craving knowledge and experience. :)

 

 

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Hi Cralis,

 

I'm actually a 5 minute drive from the airfield. I'm not sure how much knowledge or experience you'll get from me :)

 

Have you been along Moreton/Stradbroke yet? That's probably the most scenic flight you can do locally.

 

Cheers,

 

Al

 

 

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Good-on-ya Craig,

 

I'm Jealous:black_eye:..... Hopefully I can start mine in November some time, after I get me driving license, and I get that on the 31st Oct...:big_grin:

 

Cheers,

 

Tom

 

 

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Al, I'd love to come fly with you if you've ever got a spare seat, and I can throw money at. :) As for the flights, all I've done is taken off 06, and the flew up to around 2500 I think, and then got over some rivers and stuff, and flew around there a while. So, directly in front of 06, over some rivers or something.

 

Then came back, crossing the intersection of 06 and 12, then left around and back, landing on 12.

 

Was really good. Loads of fun... Didn't get to see much. And.. whats the trick to finding the field??? 031_loopy.gif.e6c12871a67563904dadc7a0d20945bf.gif When we turned back to the field, John said turn and level with us pointing at the field... I could't see it! Even when he tried to point it out. Is there a trick, or just experience?

 

 

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Good-on-ya Craig, I'm Jealous:black_eye:..... Hopefully I can start mine in November some time, after I get me driving license, and I get that on the 31st Oct...:big_grin:

 

Cheers,

 

Tom

If it helps at all, Tom.... it's better than you think. :)

 

It really is... A very good flight today.. Enjoyed it alot.

 

 

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Yeah "I" know how good it is,:thumb_up:

 

But I got to convince the parents that it is quite safe.....049_sad.gif.af5e5c0993af131d9c5bfe880fbbc2a0.gif and because we live out of town (40klm south of Dalby, 80klm west of Twmba) they would have to run me in and out all the time..... thats why I think It might be better going when I can drive myself.. I certainly hope so anyway....i_dunno

 

Thanks a lot.... Tom

 

 

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Guest Cloudsuck

Cralis,

 

I think as far as the aircraft go, you have made the right choice. The Tecnam is a much nicer plane to fly than a Jab. Now before the Jab owners get on their high horses, I own both a Jab and a Tecnam Sierra. While my 6 cyl Jab has a very slight performance advantage over the Teccie, the Sierra is simply the nicest plane I have ever flown, hands down. As far as Cons go, AH's and GPS's are of no advantage to you what so ever when learning to fly.

 

Enjoy your flying... don't sweat the little set backs along the way, we all had them.

 

 

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And.. whats the trick to finding the field??? 031_loopy.gif.e6c12871a67563904dadc7a0d20945bf.gif When we turned back to the field, John said turn and level with us pointing at the field... I could't see it! Even when he tried to point it out. Is there a trick, or just experience?

Dont panic with this Cralis. For about the first 10 hours I flew into Tooradin I couldn't locate the airfield from the air.

 

Had to pull out the map and basically work out where it was and then call it blind knowing that it would turn up where I thought it would....:big_grin:

 

Have learnt the lay of the land since then and can pick where it is now so it becomes an experience thing....

 

Mind you, I could take you to Central Australia and pick all the little dirt strips on the station that are only 600m long without a problem...just what you get used to looking for. :thumb_up:

 

Good work on selecting the training organisation moving along with your ticket...

 

 

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Cralis,

 

Well if you can't find the field don't follow me either cause I'm lost to lol:loopy:

 

I have to admit though I couldn't work it out either on my first lesson but it gets easier

 

 

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I wouldn't be overly concerned about the aircraft type and the way you feel it handles after your first flight. Realistically this forms a small part of your licence overall. It's the cross country, radio, circuit procedures etc that will take most of the time.

 

 

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short basic answer, the Tecnam flies well, but hides your mistakes, the Jabiru flies just as well, but will show you your mistakes, IMO, the Jabiru is a better trainer as it will show you what your doing wrong and you will learn how to correct it.

 

 

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That is a common thing that some people say about the Gazelle as it is so easy to fly:

 

The Gazelle teaches you to fly but doesn't teach you to be a pilot

 

I started in a Jabiru LSA and at Point Cook - two things here, 1. was Point Cook is so windy at times and 2. the Jabiru LSA is a handful for first time flying.

 

After 7hrs I gave up and said to Corrine that flying wasn't what I thought it would be like. She convinced me to try another aircraft and somewhere else with better weather so I went to Shepparton and was in a Gazelle (the one I now own) - I loved it.

 

After the Gazelle I went back to Point Cook and got endorsed in the LSA Jabiru. I then went and got endorsed in the even faster and more of a handful CTsw.

 

And remember Ultralights - it was you who got me into flying so this website is YOUR FAULT 006_laugh.gif.0f7b82c13a0ec29502c5fb56c616f069.gif

 

The point I am making is that I believe I found through this experience that all aircraft are different, all schools and instructors are different and all learning processes of an individual are different. If something doesn't feel right or you don't like it, just try it a different way and remember your flying is never compelled to just one aircraft etc. That half the fun, learning how different aircraft fly :big_grin:

 

 

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I'm hoping this theory is right: I wouldn't learn to drive in a Lamborgine. It's difficult... when things go wrong, they really go wrong.. they're unforgiving. I'd rather learn in a standard car - the easiest available. The fact is, I am learning to fly. Once I get the basics nailed down, I get my licence, and then from there on, I am always learning to drive better, gaining more experience, and driving bigger/faster cars. (This doesn't apply here in Australia, it seems, as it winds me up with a young chap drives a V8 with a broken exhaust, and he wheel spins, so because of this amazingly skillful task (Serious amount of sarcasm), he feels he is at the 'advanced driving skills' level, but wonders why when we see on the news a Holden with low profiles, fat exhaust and tinted windows, buried into the a tree... (Rant finished... back to topic.. :) ).

 

It's going to be the same with planes. Lets learn to fly and use a simple tool to do this. Once we have the basics down, and we're flying with confidence (but also with a mind set saying that we're still beginners/learning), then we can start going more 'advanced', and with experience.. I'm hoping the change in aircraft type to 'harder' ones becomes easier.

 

Does this sounds realistic?

 

(One bit of contradiction to this is that my first R/C Helicopter was an Align Trex 450SE.. a small helicopter that is known to be very twitchy. I then got a Raptor 50.. around 4 times the size and 8 times the weight. THis was a breeze to fly because I was used to the twitchy 450SE. So once I learnt on the 450, the rest of the helis were easy. HOWEVER... I crashed a few times learning on the 450. We don't have that same privilege in full scale aircraft.. so.. it's not really the same...)

 

 

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You're probably on the right track Cralis.

 

I swapped to rec aircraft last year but I have some time in some higher performance GA aircraft.

 

As has already been said, the Jabiru will show where you lack in handling skills and I think they are one of the more difficult aircraft to fly, I dont believe that they are particularly hard to fly, just harder than some other types.

 

In saying that though, if you learn on one you will find you adapt quite quickly and you will have the ability to hop from aircraft to aircraft with no problem.

 

I've never flown a Tecnam so cant pass comment on how they fly. It sounds like they might be similar to a Texan which is a very forgiving aircraft.

 

Quote Cralis "young chap drives a V8 with a broken exhaust, and he wheel spins, so because of this amazingly skillful task (Serious amount of sarcasm), he feels he is at the 'advanced driving skills' level" 006_laugh.gif.0f7b82c13a0ec29502c5fb56c616f069.gif006_laugh.gif.d4257c62d3c07cda468378b239946970.gif006_laugh.gif.0f7b82c13a0ec29502c5fb56c616f069.gif

 

 

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Something I liked about the Tecnam as well was the stick being between the legs, as opposed to between myself and the instructor in the Jab... I felt more in control like that. I did look a bit akward when the instructor was trying to hald the throttle with his right hand, and the stick with his left... being in the right seat.. but he managed.

 

 

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It was a wierd sensation the first time I flew in a Jabby with the stick on my right. I thought , initially, it was the dumbest setup. You do get used to it as I have and now I've just bought one!!! Love them...

 

 

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Can't see the field. Yes I can believe that.

 

Look for an area with nothing, no trees, buildings, roads, or even rivers. That would be a good place to put an airstrip, so that is where it probably is. Big sheds / hangars are a giveaway and another is orange balls on power lines. It will all fall in place as you get experienced.

 

 

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Guest Cralis

My first lesson is booked for Saturday the 18th of October! 018_hug.gif.8f44196246785568c4ba31412287795a.gif

 

Quite excited.... Be there at 09h00 for a 10h30 flight. :)

 

 

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That's sounds great:thumb_up:.....

 

also what sort of theory books did you end up getting? because I should get some soon and start reading up on all thats required.....:big_grin:

 

Thanks... Tom:wave:

 

 

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Guest Cralis

I got the books from ProSky, which is the ones they recommend. It's the Flight Theory Centre books, in the red box. I assume different schools use different books though. Not sure.

 

 

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