jamesgyore Posted September 5, 2010 Share Posted September 5, 2010 Good morning everyone, I'm new to the site. I'm rather the odd one out, as I'm a television content producer, not a pilot... Yet. I have an insane idea. To document my flight instruction and first solo, while I construct an ultralight aircraft in my garage. It might make a great TV show, and promote recreational aviation in Australia. In fact, I'll be constructing two aircraft. The second is for the purpose of recording air-to-air and air-to-ground video footage. I've spent the last few weeks humming and harring over aircraft designs and have found it difficult to find suppliers of materials, particularly wood. My desk is littered with printed plans for the aluminium affordaplane and the wooden Jonowski J-1b. I've lost track of how many plastic kit planes I've looked at from former communist countries. These in particular are awesome planes, but the cost of them is just ridiculous. Who would have figured that these former commies would become such greedy capitalists! A high winged pusher would be the ideal airborne video camera platform, so I'm more inclined to build the J-1b. Mind you, the mini imp has not escaped my attention. I have been using the subtle approach with my partner, slowly introducing the idea that a new O-200 engine at about 25K US dollars is not unreasonable and that the mini imp model C would be the ideal "other car". Like most guys, I want the ferrari, but will ultimately have to settle for the "practical" and "affordable" wagon. Gee, I hope I can at least get the optional sports trim package. I look forward to reading past posts of members and learning a thing or two from you all. For those interested, I'd be delighted in sharing my progress with this documentary project. Regards, James. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueshed Posted September 5, 2010 Share Posted September 5, 2010 Welcome James Sounds like you have your spare time all worked out for a while! Keep it up and have fun, plenty of info etc on here, what part of our great country are you in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingVizsla Posted September 5, 2010 Share Posted September 5, 2010 Welcome James, Flying and airports need all the promotion they can get - I have just finished watching the DVD "Runway One Six Right" (available through the Pilot Shop on this site) which is about an airstrip (sounds boring but it really gets you in). I am not sure what CASA's view of filming from aircraft is now-a-days but back about 10-15 years ago a friend of mine did some charter work for the SBS crew doing a doco on a pilot. Any filming had to be flown by a commercial pilot. When it came to onboard shots of the lady flying over and landing the aircraft, the male commercial pilot had to be dressed to pass for her and they later voiced over her radio calls. She couldn't do any flying with a camera man on board but could do it with a lipstick camera on the wing. Consequently most footage was flown by a man. I don't know what restrictions RAA have on commercial filiming in flight - might be worth asking Teckair (a member on this site) as he does docos and travel logs in a Skyfox. He has a web site. Might be best to send him a Private Message - look him up under Members. Might also be worth asking the RAA head office if a home built aircraft would be allowable for commercial filming. The light aircraft are a bit bumpy so you would need to overcome that somehow. Great to have you on board! Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest davidh10 Posted September 6, 2010 Share Posted September 6, 2010 Welcome to the site. You will find lots of info here, but I also suspect that you need to do some checks on the legality of what you propose. An RAA (only) pilot cannot pilot a commercial flight. In other words, cannot receive compensation other than an equal part of the fuel cost, which is peanuts. I've occasionally had a passenger offer to pay for the fuel and I've just said "don't worry about it. You could only pay half the fuel cost, and that isn't worth worrying about. Just enjoy the flight". I stand to be corrected, but I suspect that an RAA Pilot could carry a camera operator who was making a commercial film, but only if the Pilot does not obtain any compensation. I've heard of commercial aerial photography being conducted from RAA aircraft, but am not aware of the pilot licensing requirement for this activity. I take some photographs from my aircraft and some of those (as well as non-aerial photos) are exhibited on the Internet where prints can be purchased, however this is, for me, a hobby not a business. The photos are not commissioned. Just my choice of subject material. I do not believe I could engage in taking commissioned photos, as it is my belief that would be classified as commercial (ie. for hire or reward). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraemeK Posted September 6, 2010 Share Posted September 6, 2010 I've heard of commercial aerial photography being conducted from RAA aircraft, but am not aware of the pilot licensing requirement for this activity. Interesting question - my first reaction would have been no way it could be done. But then CASA just published this exemption, allowing RAA pilots to conduct aerial photography from weight shift aircraft, and even to enter CTA to do it! Admittedly, need an AOC, but apparently it can be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted September 6, 2010 Share Posted September 6, 2010 James, how would you like to run the Recreational Flying Television Station? We have one on this site however it is hidden at the moment due to me not having the time and not having content and not sure how to source it...a great opportunity available here for everyone to use if we can get it up and running Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted September 6, 2010 Share Posted September 6, 2010 Welcome James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubbleboy Posted September 6, 2010 Share Posted September 6, 2010 Hi James...if your in OZ I can put you on to a good supplier of Spruce for aircraft building. I purchased from this guy for the Pietenpol Air Camper I am building. Scottys Pietenpol Air Camper Build Scotty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesgyore Posted September 6, 2010 Author Share Posted September 6, 2010 Hi there Ian, This sounds most interesting. We'll have to talk to you some more about this, but I see no reason why the Recreational aviation television station can't be populated with content that I produce in addition to the documentary project I described. James. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesgyore Posted September 6, 2010 Author Share Posted September 6, 2010 Thank you all for your notes of welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest basscheffers Posted September 7, 2010 Share Posted September 7, 2010 Some ideas... Some ideas regarding legalities, some of them questions themselves you have to ask of more knowledgable people! No airwork in RA-Aus, but AFAIK, it is allowed in VH-experimental. You need an AOC for airwork? Not if it is a private operation! If you or your company own and operate both aircraft, there is no restriction on doing airwork with them without an AOC. (if VH) Need a CPL for airwork? Not if the pilots are part of the team and not specifically hired to be pilots. So if the people that will do the flying are there from the start building the aircraft and producing the documentary and then go fly and film it flying in the end, nobody can say you would have needed a CPL for that. So set up a company that owns the aircraft and does the production; it's all private then. You might even get away with making it a not for profit. One of the best things you can do is talk to Mick Poole at RA-Aus soon and ask him how much trouble you would get into if you do this. My guess is that if you explain why you are doing what you are doing, you might get their support and help navigating the legalities, possibly arranging special exemptions. Whereabouts are you? I would guess a fair few people in your area might be interested in contributing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest basscheffers Posted September 7, 2010 Share Posted September 7, 2010 An RAA (only) pilot cannot pilot a commercial flight. In other words, cannot receive compensation other than an equal part of the fuel cost, which is peanuts. It is not cost of fuel, it is simply cost. That means the total hourly cost, which is unlikely to be less than $100/hour if you include fuel, insurance, maintenance, hangarage, depreciation, interest payments, etc, etc, etc. So next time a friend asks you to go for a fly, having them contribute $50/hour is perfectly legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesgyore Posted September 7, 2010 Author Share Posted September 7, 2010 Thanks for these well considered points. I'm located in the northern suburbs of Melbourne, and would welcome those interested in contributing. James. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesgyore Posted September 7, 2010 Author Share Posted September 7, 2010 Hey there, Suburban Melbourne here. James. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesgyore Posted September 7, 2010 Author Share Posted September 7, 2010 Hi Sue, Thanks for you advice. I have a secret weapon. 3 in fact, I've pimped a set of NV GS180's for this particular programme. Optical as well as digitally processed image stabilisation. Bumpy ride? bring it on, my cameras will cop it and dish a little back too! James. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesgyore Posted September 7, 2010 Author Share Posted September 7, 2010 Given your proposition some thought Ian, I think it is very do-able. Lets chat, James. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted September 7, 2010 Share Posted September 7, 2010 Given your proposition some thought Ian,I think it is very do-able. Lets chat, James. I'm in Watsonia Mate so only a few miles from you...I will give you a ring in the next day or two Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesgyore Posted September 8, 2010 Author Share Posted September 8, 2010 Yes please Scotty, I'd love to have a contact for spruce... I've been investigating the use of hoop pine as a substitute, but would rather have spuce. James. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesgyore Posted September 8, 2010 Author Share Posted September 8, 2010 Hey there, I don't think I'll have an issue as I will not be "hiring myself" for the purpose of this documentary. James. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubbleboy Posted September 8, 2010 Share Posted September 8, 2010 Hi James...look under the links section of my website and Tom's Number is listed for Spruce. Nice guy and nice Spruce! Scotty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingVizsla Posted September 8, 2010 Share Posted September 8, 2010 Could you do high definition aerial photos? My Council paid about $54,000 for about 4km2 high definition with elevation data which was converted to a mosaic, georeferenced so it was suitable to convert to GIS or mapping sofware and delivered as a digital file. Unfortunately they flew it in cloudy weather and there were cloud shadows all over the place - they tried photoshopping them out, got part way through and gave up. What they delivered was terrible, patches of shadow with random squares of 'cleaned up' artificial looking colour. They offered a discount which was then negated by extra charges for the clean up work. If you can do better than that there are plenty of Councils out there who are after this kind of thing. They use it for mapping, susing out unapproved pools, printing on glossy photo paper and framing for the boardroom, planning, locating services etc. There's a Council in Qld who were looking for someone to fly along the coast at high tide and video and repeat at low tide so they could take stills and note the location, then do it again next year to see if things are changing. Bloke who told me about it was going to decline the job because he couldn't work out how to keep the camera still enough. There's lots of opportunities out there. Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted September 8, 2010 Share Posted September 8, 2010 Hi James...look under the links section of my website and Tom's Number is listed for Spruce. Nice guy and nice Spruce!Scotty Hey Scotty, thanks for the link to here on your site Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesgyore Posted September 9, 2010 Author Share Posted September 9, 2010 Hi there Sue, The devil is in the detail. I've been approached many times about this type of assignment. The kind of project you've described requires the exact opposite of "keeping it simple"... Time triggered single frame photography based on airspeed and altitude mapped to GPS data for every frame. Not easy to do... Unless you know the math, and are VERY good with software. Attributes, I happen to have. Still photography has a much higher resolution than HD TV. Video cameras for the most part do not work well in low light and in this particular application. Several cameras with different types of film used in combination (high ISO, IR, B/W Low ISO), solves the cloud shadow problem. Post production editing combines the different results and tidies things up. The equipment needed, the technology involved, and the time required to carry out the type of task you've described "professionally", costs out at about about $193,000.00, including post production costs for a shire (statistically average in size for an urban shire), it is likely to require 90 or more days to collect the basic digital data and a further 7 months to present the final desired product. I'm not surprised that the people you referred to have failed. Its like asking a cousin to shoot your wedding video and then showing him/her where the record button is... Never a good idea, and will always fail. You can understand why these people have failed and why many more will. I might seem like easy money... buts its hard work and the money offered is never enough to cover what it really costs to do a truly professional job. Some day, a prospective client will approach me and ask, "what will it cost" rather than "would you do it for X". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jhonan Posted September 10, 2010 Share Posted September 10, 2010 Hi there Sue,The devil is in the detail. I've been approached many times about this type of assignment. .... type of task you've described "professionally", costs out at about about $193,000.00, including post production costs for a shire (statistically average in size for an urban shire), it is likely to require 90 or more days to collect the basic digital data and a further 7 months to present the final desired product. .... Wow that seems a lot of money. What about some of these cameras Elphel, Inc. | Imaging solutions with Free software and open hardware linked to computers with some usb GPS and other units (altimeter, gyros etc). I believe these are the cameras used in Google streetview. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest basscheffers Posted September 10, 2010 Share Posted September 10, 2010 There's a Council in Qld who were looking for someone to fly along the coast at high tide and video and repeat at low tide so they could take stills and note the location, then do it again next year to see if things are changing. Bloke who told me about it was going to decline the job because he couldn't work out how to keep the camera still enough. Have them look at: NearMap - Government Product Guide Not cheap, but you know the goods will be suitable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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