Yiannis Air Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 As per BRS 6 years for repack and 12 for rocket replace. The technique is at packing. Maybe you can find rocket at local market or if not exist create one. This is just an idea because the biggest problem is the transportation of the rocket. Here in Europe the rockets, are transporters only by Tracks (if my info are correct) In additional the Europian brant chute :):):) have longer repack rocket life is same. And for fun at my translation "chute" is someone that throw flour to somewhere...... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted February 26, 2018 Author Share Posted February 26, 2018 The rocket is encased in a metal band and also pinned inside the container. Its impossible for it to move in transport. if it went off it would just be the Eflux that would be the problem. You can see the encasing in this picture. This is mine I got in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yiannis Air Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 During order of chute normally the maker asking you if you like the rocket to be attached or separate from container. We had similar case here in Greece. I will find out what they did and I will revert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcrowley Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 Hello to the teamI have to say that. An ultralight without a parachute is like a Russian Roulette. I am here right now and I am writing because of the BRS parachute installed on my Savannah............... Is a big surprise to me that after lot of bla bla bla was only few words about parachute back on 2011............. With law or without law before even you do the first engine start, parachute must installed. In Europe almost all ULM has parachute. I started to dive with my friend from 500 ft (maybe less) because we lost the elevator at base leg of approach and we survive without any scratch and minor damage at aircraft. From the time that problem appears until touchdown was less than 8 sec....All of them back at 2004. It is the most bigger innovation at aviation. If someone interested I have the manuals for parachute installetion on Savannah S. Are 9mb and doesn't allow me to to upload here. Yiannis If you wouldn’t mind, Iwould you share your story. For example... what exactly happened to the elevator, did you discover the cause, what was the ride like under the parachute, was the aircraft destroyed by the deployment? Thanks! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajorTom Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 I'm in direct contact with BRS and will install my chute in a couple of days. The ICP manual is for Junkers. The BRS instalation is different. e.g. rocket behind chute... handle in the middle under the instrument panel.... I will post pictures, when time comes. These pics are from BRS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted March 1, 2018 Author Share Posted March 1, 2018 BRS here are expensive...10K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajorTom Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 Junkers is even more expansiv in Germany. Also the german savannah distributer seems to be highly paid by Junkers to decry any other brand. In the end I pay over 1000 Euro less for my complete parachute kit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yiannis Air Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 So I have to say a lot about but I will story only the incident and some advises after my experience. Was the first test flight of new build Savannah back at 2003. We went at improper airfield because the Aircraft was unregister. At that time Greece was without any regulation in regard the ULM. We went something like pirates.... After two and a half hour of up and down with several friends as pax we did the last one with my good friend Kosta. He is also PPL pilot but at that time was no more than a year that he get his PPL. We went at downwind leg turned to right base leg with about 30 digress. Suddenly I lost the feeling of elevator control. I moved the stick fwd and aft without any respond of the Savy. The only that happens was to dive vertically. Latter I will explain the reason. In parallel I say to kosta that I have lost the control. He told me "MH LES MAAAAAALAKIES" is like "don't say <mod censored>" but with total broken voice. Instinctively he push the throttle at full power but the only that happen was the surface to coming faster at our face. At that time it came to my mind that I have parachute. ITOOK OUT THE LOCKING PIN and I activate it. I was so sure that nothing gone happen and for that reason I left the locking pin on place. So many mistakes together that day..... So. The first that I remember is the very loud boom in my ears and the cabin full of smoke. I had installed the BRS canister in the cabin at luggage area. The installation was my idea because that time ICP didn't had any info in regard parachute installation. Immediately after I remember the rocket noise and the aircraft started to slow down. At the beginning was slow but after a sec we started to feel the real deceleration (g) and instead to watched in front of us the surface to coming we saw the blue sky. Immediately after the Savy stopped and started to dive now with till. After that we feel the most soft touch down ever. I turn my head to Kostas and both of us started to laugh. He told me we just loose one of our 7 lives... I shut off the fuels, we open the doors and was seated next to aircraft. After couple of minutes come the first persona that was near and I believe that even and now he don't believe that me and Kostas went at this aircraft..... We started to dive from about 500 ft. we trigger the parachute at about 350 to 400 ft the we landed at hill about 80 ft from sea level. The sea from area that we touched down is about 200 meter away. I am 100% sure that the BRS can extend and stop you even if you are at 300ft. The time? All the story was no more than 8 sec. I believe that was everything on the limit and the good God watching us...... The problem. I forgot to lock the castle nut with locking pin that is bolting the stick with elevator push rod that passing under the seats. During the moving fwd and aft of the stick the pushing rod stack at down position at small recess ( I am not sure if the word is correct). After that ICP create a bulletin that mentioned this recess must be remove. At my new Savannah S still exist but the pushing rod has different design. Nobody saw the unlocked nut because of the biggest mistake we did that day. The mistake was that at first flight we did a big party and we lost our concentration to the proper inspection. The damage at aircraft was minor. We change the front wheel and the skin at rear fuselage. The aircraft it still fly and fly real good. My advice is. ALL of you that you have read this install a Parachute on your aircraft. We are so enthusiastic with that we are doing and we are losing the sense of risk that we are taking. Thanks to my Wife to my Father (he passed away couple of year ago and was present during the incident) and friends that the puss me to add a parachute before my first flight. I am here with you because of them..... I WAS SO FUKING WRONG. P.S. The point is. Not only to install the chute but also to train your brain to use it. In our case in Greece the surface is sea water or mountains. At both cases if you have a chute just use it. If you have time find a nice place and just extend the chute. The damage will be less. We lost some friends in Greece because the try to save the aircraft and they didn't use it. Unfortunately at the end they lost also their lives. Our case if I remember correct is the 17X at BRS survivors....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted March 4, 2018 Author Share Posted March 4, 2018 Thank you for your first hand story Yiannis Chutes are not popular here mainly due to cost and most pilots are tight arses by nature here but I believe they are mandatory now in germany. Also part of your preflight startup should be to arm the chute (remove the locking pin) and of course put the pin back in on shutdown. I am surprised the airframe did not sustain more damage as they quote around 6 to 7m/s decent rate under the chute. When I built my first Sav I forgot to loch the castellated nut on the flap control but I had a L4 go right over all my connections on the aircraft before the first flight and he picked it up so it is easy to miss especially if you do not have another pair of eyes go over your build Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_d Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 Agree, thanks for your story Yiannis. Makes me even more determined to install one. You did well to remember the chute, and then to arm it and deploy in time. Now my wife is at me to book a holiday to Greece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yiannis Air Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 Dear Kyle. Since then the locking pin is attached at starting key...... I was thinking also for decent rate. I believe that during deploy is a very very short period that the speed is near to zero due to deceleration. In regard the money sorry my friends but the lives and families doesn't have price. Yes in Germany is mandatory but here in Greece I believe I have convince almost all to install chutes and to be mandatory. Unfortunately since 2003 we had two accident and we lost 4 lives. Both of the aircraft was with chutes but the didn't used. At one of the case I am 100% sure that with chutes deploy now both of them it would be with us. For that reason I added to my story. Is not only to have it but to use it.... Yiannis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yiannis Air Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 Dear Marty If you been in Greece be sure that we will have lot of fun :):):):):):) And some times we must trust the women, they have more brain than us But sometimes....xaxaxaxaxa Yiannis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted March 4, 2018 Author Share Posted March 4, 2018 Hi Yiannis Yes the issue seems to be making sure you arm the chute BEFORE takeoff. There have been fatal accidents here with chutes on board as well...investigations showed the pin was still in. You obviously had the presence of mind and enough time to arm and then deploy your chute. Chutes save lives for sure and I am a big believer in them as well. My rebuild Savannah I am doing will have one. I am glad you are still here to tell us your story Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yiannis Air Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 You know I was thinking that we are taken the parameter of operator side. There is another one side. The side of those that was at airfield and saw all the incident from a distains of about 2 miles. There was also a big drama until to inform them that everything was OK. We dived behind a hill and they didn't see if the chute extended on time. After so many years are coming at my mind lot of stores, some of them are funny some other are very sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bennyboy320 Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 Having spent many years in a previous life sitting on a bang seat getting a Magnum recovery system when we purchased our Foxbat was a simple decision, it’s a nice last ditch option, anyway once the noise stops the insurance company owns the a/c. Fly safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_d Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 Having spent many years in a previous life sitting on a bang seat getting a Magnum recovery system when we purchased our Foxbat was a simple decision' date=' it’s a nice last ditch option, anyway once the noise stops the insurance company owns the a/c.[img']https://www.recreationalflying.com/xf_step/upload/uploads/emoticons/080_plane.gif.a1e5e0a413d43d363c1bc5b3a612d6df.gif[/img] Fly safe. Was the Magnum bought locally or imported? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bennyboy320 Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 Had it installed by Aeroprakt, it was a spec I requested when I ordered the a/c, price at the time (May 2016) was $6,200 AUD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightyknots Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 So I have to say a lot about but I will story only the incident and some advises after my experience. Was the first test flight of new build Savannah back at 2003. We went at improper airfield because the Aircraft was unregister. At that time Greece was without any regulation in regard the ULM. We went something like pirates....After two and a half hour of up and down with several friends as pax we did the last one with my good friend Kosta. He is also PPL pilot but at that time was no more than a year that he get his PPL. We went at downwind leg turned to right base leg with about 30 digress. Suddenly I lost the feeling of elevator control. I moved the stick fwd and aft without any respond of the Savy. The only that happens was to dive vertically. Latter I will explain the reason. In parallel I say to kosta that I have lost the control. He told me "MH LES MAAAAAALAKIES" is like "don't say ********" but with total broken voice. Instinctively he push the throttle at full power but the only that happen was the surface to coming faster at our face. At that time it came to my mind that I have parachute. ITOOK OUT THE LOCKING PIN and I activate it. I was so sure that nothing gone happen and for that reason I left the locking pin on place. So many mistakes together that day..... So. The first that I remember is the very loud boom in my ears and the cabin full of smoke. I had installed the BRS canister in the cabin at luggage area. The installation was my idea because that time ICP didn't had any info in regard parachute installation. Immediately after I remember the rocket noise and the aircraft started to slow down. At the beginning was slow but after a sec we started to feel the real deceleration (g) and instead to watched in front of us the surface to coming we saw the blue sky. Immediately after the Savy stopped and started to dive now with till. After that we feel the most soft touch down ever. I turn my head to Kostas and both of us started to laugh. He told me we just loose one of our 7 lives... I shut off the fuels, we open the doors and was seated next to aircraft. After couple of minutes come the first persona that was near and I believe that even and now he don't believe that me and Kostas went at this aircraft..... We started to dive from about 500 ft. we trigger the parachute at about 350 to 400 ft the we landed at hill about 80 ft from sea level. The sea from area that we touched down is about 200 meter away. I am 100% sure that the BRS can extend and stop you even if you are at 300ft. The time? All the story was no more than 8 sec. I believe that was everything on the limit and the good God watching us...... The problem. I forgot to lock the castle nut with locking pin that is bolting the stick with elevator push rod that passing under the seats. During the moving fwd and aft of the stick the pushing rod stack at down position at small recess ( I am not sure if the word is correct). After that ICP create a bulletin that mentioned this recess must be remove. At my new Savannah S still exist but the pushing rod has different design. Nobody saw the unlocked nut because of the biggest mistake we did that day. The mistake was that at first flight we did a big party and we lost our concentration to the proper inspection. The damage at aircraft was minor. We change the front wheel and the skin at rear fuselage. The aircraft it still fly and fly real good. My advice is. ALL of you that you have read this install a Parachute on your aircraft. We are so enthusiastic with that we are doing and we are losing the sense of risk that we are taking. Thanks to my Wife to my Father (he passed away couple of year ago and was present during the incident) and friends that the puss me to add a parachute before my first flight. I am here with you because of them..... I WAS SO FUKING WRONG. P.S. The point is. Not only to install the chute but also to train your brain to use it. In our case in Greece the surface is sea water or mountains. At both cases if you have a chute just use it. If you have time find a nice place and just extend the chute. The damage will be less. We lost some friends in Greece because the try to save the aircraft and they didn't use it. Unfortunately at the end they lost also their lives. Our case if I remember correct is the 17X at BRS survivors....... Well, Yiannis, that is quite a story. It is clear that you presence of mind and very quick action saved you and your friend (and also your aircraft) on that fateful day. And God ordered it so that you did not land on (or in) anything nasty or harmful: once the rocket has fired, you have no say where you touch down. When I finish building my Savannah it will not get airborne until it is fitted with a ballistic parachute. One day, while flight training, my instructor was very sad and told me that another flight instructor -a good friend- had lost her life due to a mid-air collision. I have seen the way some pilots operate and I believe that this is the most likely reason why I would have to employ the ballistic parachute: a mid-air collision. See: Two dead in Feilding plane collision There are two reasons to fit the parachute: to save my own skin (potentially) and to keep my wife happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted March 9, 2018 Author Share Posted March 9, 2018 The major costs are getting the chute here by itself. Benny it would be a lot cheaper having it supplied at the manufacturer for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bennyboy320 Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 The next question that needs answers is once our rocket motors need servicing ( usually 6 years) is there a B1 qualified L2/L4 or LAME around to do it or will they just disarm & freight it to Europe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_d Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 Would the costs decrease with volume? Must be a few people in Aus who want chutes, new rockets or both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted March 9, 2018 Author Share Posted March 9, 2018 I split the freight cost with a guy who had a repack coming back so yes I would say we an offset the costs with multiple units Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OZJohn Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 My plan is to disarm the rockets and have them disposed of legally then freight the chute as normal freight to the manufacturer for repack and sent back with new rocket as dangerous goods. I have a friend who has dangerous goods license. The better the volume the better the cost. John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightyknots Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 In New Zealand it is legal to let off fireworks in your back yard. I could use an expired rocket then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajorTom Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 I use the easter weekend to install my BRS Parachute... this version is much more compact than the junkers system Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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