motzartmerv Posted May 11, 2011 Author Share Posted May 11, 2011 :thumb_up: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazda Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 You won't die if you fly through cloud if you are above LSALT (when you DO need one!), have an instrument rating and an IFR aircraft. Clouds don't kill, the terrain does. The problem is RA pilots have no instrument training generally (and I'm not talking about IFR, just time under the hood), PPLs only need 2 hours, CPLs only need 10 hours. The ATSB released a report today I think, about a commercial VFR helicopter pilot (with about 4000 hours) entering cloud and yes, he crashed within 70 seconds and killed his passenger. In the report the pilot says he didn't think he had sufficient training to be on instruments. This is not something to muck around with. Watch the weather! You can fly over the top if there is a gap, but you'd better make sure you can navigate properly on instruments, and that doesn't just mean following a line on a non-TSO GPS. The sensory illusions are very real when visual reference is lost and training is needed to know how to recognise them and recover. All GA pilots must demonstrate proficiency in recovery from spiral dives and incipient spins in visual conditions and recovery from unusual attitudes by instruments alone. Remember there are really only two unusual attitudes used, it isn't rocket science. Nose high, airspeed low/decreasing and probably some bank angle (could develop into stall/spin), or nose low, airspeed high/increasing, probably some bank angle (could become a spiral). Please ensure you do spiral dive recoveries as well as stalls, and have some awareness of rolling G. Yes Motz, the idea is that a pilot could make a 180 degree level turn and get out of cloud, that is what the 2 hours is for, it is not to encourage pilots to think they can do any more than that. What I don't get is that people keep going on about VFR LSALT, but now think that descending is the best option if you get into cloud! The cloud doesn't hurt, the ground does. The best option is to get on instruments and turn around, failing that, I would be climbing above IFR LSALT, considering the freezing level, and advising ATC so you don't run into an IFR aircraft in the cloud. If you don't have instrument training this would be very, very hard to do. Please consider keeping some money aside which might save your life, invest in some training under the hood, in recovery from spins and spiral dives. And until then, keep well clear of bad weather. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motzartmerv Posted May 11, 2011 Author Share Posted May 11, 2011 Thanx for your input maz. If you read Nev's original post you'd see he was clear that if you pop up into the soup then popping back down would be an option. Provided its done straight away. I don't know where you got the idea i was saying that the 2hours BIF was meant for anything more than a turn out of the cloud. So after some hood time we are cool to 'not stay clear of the bad wx'..??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazda Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 Yep! After 40+ hours of it you can have an instrument rating! :cheezy grin:Although that still means avoiding some bad weather as you know Motz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motzartmerv Posted May 11, 2011 Author Share Posted May 11, 2011 Lol, put aside some money...i like that... don't you mean put aside a small fortune.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Well, that IS exciting isn't it? It's OK being on the ground reading about it.Nev. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightyknots Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Now I am right in the soup and it seems like the engine is howling, my mind is going mad with thoughts … “you should not be here … this is not good ….. scan the instruments, watch the speed and DG, keep the wings level … scan the instruments …. believe the instruments …. believe the instruments……… The windscreen is just smoky white, there is nothing out there …….Part 2 tomorrow .. sorry ran out of time to complete David I'm looking forward -with bated breath- to tomorrow's instalment. It sounds really worrying up till this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 The bugger knows when to end a chapter too doesn't he Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slartibartfast Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 It is exciting. I hope he survives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 We should take bets Slarti Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slartibartfast Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Perhaps we should wait for the movie to come out and not spoil the ending. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightyknots Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Twentieth Century Fox is brokering a deal as we speak... ...and, instalment No 2 will only be available to subscribers who have entered valid Amex, Diners, Visa or Mastercard details in the payment window linked to you via your PM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Well Come On David, the suspense is killing me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motzartmerv Posted May 12, 2011 Author Share Posted May 12, 2011 Strewth..what category does that come under.? Precautionary landing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastmeg2 Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Maybe we should open a whole new discussion about VFR into IMC over (Oceanic) water. There are some interesting tales in the book "Fate is the Hunter" of such instances of entering IMC that goes all the way down to MSL and the interesting techniques used to determine when they had descended to the just barely dry side of sea level. Having read that book and if I were to start such a thread I might talk about how you're unlikely to collide with terrain while over the ocean but would be taking your chances with shipping traffic. Different time(era), different circumstances, different (or lack of) regulations perhaps . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 I've only just finished re-reading Fate is the Hunter, and one day must count up how many times he says "It was about this time Williams and Alcock found a cliff faced in the Sierra Nevadas, It was about .......etc, etc, all of them airliners with passengers He would have to have mentioned at least 50 of his old classmates, friends etc. I liked the one about finding whether he had taken the correct fijord of two when he had to skim between the cloud base and the sea until he found a wrecked ship a few miles into the fijord by which time he didn't have enough room to make a 180 in the DC3. Life was cheap in those days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Damn! he's ruined the ending! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 I've only just finished re-reading Fate is the Hunter, and one day must count up how many times he says "It was about this time Williams and Alcock found a cliff faced in the Sierra Nevadas, It was about .......etc, etc, all of them airliners with passengers He would have to have mentioned at least 50 of his old classmates, friends etc.I liked the one about finding whether he had taken the correct fijord of two when he had to skim between the cloud base and the sea until he found a wrecked ship a few miles into the fijord by which time he didn't have enough room to make a 180 in the DC3. Life was cheap in those days. Certainly a great Book.I enjoyed reading it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 David, I'm afraid you're in the wrong business, you should be a writer - now we're in suspense again. A few things in this flight have prodded me. I had some very good instructors, and some of the points drummed into me were: Always leave cross country with a full tank Always use the full length of the runway even if you don't need to Get your theory done first - you might need it one day I flight planned in Victoria one day for about a 2.5 hour flight, but the weather was so bad that I was dodging around the State diverting through low corridors most of the afternoon, but the one factor I knew I didn't have to worry about was fuel. The theory saved my life shortly after the solo stage, but that's another story. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 David, Put this one in the Air Safety Digest. You will get the $500. and it will convey a good message. To the captive audience... Don"t do night VMC... do the PIFR. Rating. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 Another great chapter! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 I have just about chewed all my Nails off David reading this.Thankyou for sharing, looking forward to the next chapter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motzartmerv Posted May 14, 2011 Author Share Posted May 14, 2011 Yea Nev, would have to agree. The PIFR is much more usable and safer in my opinion. David, am holding my breath mate!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubbleboy Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 David...I feel like vomiting after reading this! I have only ever found myself having to turn back once when flying and that was on the way to Scone. Had to turn back and land at Cessnock. I know how it feels to be approaching this situation and I have butterflies reading it! Thanks for sharing it as it is a stark reminder of how lots of little things can turn into one BIG thing. Scotty (Helmet on waiting for impact....) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 Nice work David, thanks! I agree with Nev, send it to the Safety Mag, you'll get the 500 quid easily - not only that but it's a really great story for us others to certainly learn from. It's interesting you say about the of submitting flight plans (that it used to be the case that you filed one for a flight) - because for my x-country flying I usually submit a flight plan to Airservices, with SARtime. I find it easy to do, and there is always a comfort knowing someone will come looking for you if something bad happens. You can submit one with naips on your phone, or even via a phone call. I don't do it all the time, but certainly if the flight is over suspect terrain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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