Bluey Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Has anyone tried the wifi (not 3g) iPad for navigation with something like ozrunways? I currently use the iphone4 and it works reasonably well (Occasionally it closes the app for unknown reasons). I'm thinking about an iPad as the screen of the iPhone is too small. What about ipad1 verses ipad2? You can still get ipad1's especially refurbished ones from apple at much cheaper prices than the ipad2. Bluey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J170 Owner Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Er, pardon my ignorance but won't you need access to a WIFI network throughout the flight or am I missing something here? To be honest, all one needs for reliable GPS navigation is a car GPS system that can do off-road mode. My Garmin Nuvi 255W works great. Draws the track between way points as purple lines and leaves a wiggly blue line representing my track. Map and compass always in use as well. PS - if I cannot resolve my hangar issue I guess it all comes to an end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluey Posted December 30, 2011 Author Share Posted December 30, 2011 Wifi only allows you to go online from a wireless router like most of us have at home. Not too useful in flight. The question is really: does the iPad wifi model do gps navigation? I think the answer is no but I would like to hear from others who may have tried it. I know the maps in the ozrunways app are fully downloadable so an Internet connection is not required. If I really need the web, I have the phone so I can use it as an Wifi hotspot. Bluey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Use the wifi and just hook to your phone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluey Posted December 30, 2011 Author Share Posted December 30, 2011 Sure, for Internet connectivity it is the way to go but what about navigating in the air with the wifi only model? Bluey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J170 Owner Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Sure, for Internet connectivity it is the way to go but what about navigating in the air with the wifi only model?Bluey Bluey, WI FI is just a term to describe how one can connect via a wireless router to the internet. If you are up in your plane the ipad would need to be able to see a wireless connection and then be able to connect (without passwords etc) to that wireless network. That wireless network would only have limited range so would be pretty useless as a navigation tool. You need GPS in the ipad - do ipads come with GPS receivers? I think Tomo has suggested you connect to your 3G phone via the WI FI and the phone will then do the rest. I have an IT Diploma but I got it when smoke signals were the 'wow' factor! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluey Posted December 30, 2011 Author Share Posted December 30, 2011 Only the 3G model comes with a gps receiver. The wifi model doesn't. It can however be slaved to your iPhone 4 for both Internet and gps information. I'm just wondering whether anyone has tried using the wifi only model to do this while flying and how well it has worked? Bluey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guernsey Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Stone the crows now I'm really lost and I thought I was in trouble when I lost my hand held Scouts Compas. Alan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluey Posted December 30, 2011 Author Share Posted December 30, 2011 Yep, bring back the good old days. Too many gizmos today to make things too complicated. Bottom line, get the wifi 3G model if you must. It will work well. Slaving the iPhone and wifi iPad together to save a few bucks will probably work but it will not update fast enough as the gps information from the iPhone updates around once a minute (too slow). Using your iPhone this way will also mean it needs to be plugged in full time as using it as a wifi hotspot for the iPad really kills the battery. Bluey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P4D Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Wireless iPad paired with a Bad Elf Gps receiver ( available for 99 bucks on the web) The iPad gets its positional data from the Bad elf, no network connection required, now all you need are the maps. There are several suppliers with various subscriptions on the web. The one I use is an upfront annual subscription. Updates maps & ERSA every time I log on to iTunes on my pc. It is almost idiot proof but today's idiots are getting cleverer! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaz3g Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Bluey, WI FI is just a term to describe how one can connect via a wireless router to the internet. If you are up in your plane the ipad would need to be able to see a wireless connection and then be able to connect (without passwords etc) to that wireless network. That wireless network would only have limited range so would be pretty useless as a navigation tool. You need GPS in the ipad - do ipads come with GPS receivers? I think Tomo has suggested you connect to your 3G phone via the WI FI and the phone will then do the rest. I have an IT Diploma but I got it when smoke signals were the 'wow' factor! If your iPad has bluetooth you can buy a GPS mouse for around $100 and link with that. I use a mouse with my laptop and run the airnav program (based on OzzieExplorer, I gather). The laptop is connected to a 7" tft screen which is mounted in the cockit. Be aware that these may only be used to "assist" navigation and must not be solely relied upon to get you to your destination. kazx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J170 Owner Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 You know, the first time I used a GPS it didn't display a map, just your lat and lon with a little line that moved left or right. Also had distance to go displayed and speed. Your job was to keep the line pointing straight up. I think it was a Magellan. It got me to William Creek and Coober Pedy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluey Posted December 30, 2011 Author Share Posted December 30, 2011 Lots of good options but the best bet and costing about the same as other options already discussed is the iPad with 3G. You don't need the Internet connection but the 3G models come with assisted gps where as the wifi models don't. Bluey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Just use your iPhone to hotspot for the iPad. using Ozrunways you will need to probably dload something while on the fly unless you have already downloaded it and kept it on your iPad previously. This way you just need the wifi...non 3G iPad...you have a internet connection at all times if you turn the hotspot function on in your iPhone. I have a 3g iPad and hotspot it to my iPhone because I don't want to have to get a 3G card for the iPad. I have ordered a bluetooth GPS to hook to the iPad when flying and if I need anything from the net it hotspots to my iPhone anyway. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Isaac Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 What happens when you are flying in remote areas and there is no 3G signal for your iPhone, where to you get your GPS reference then? Or does the iPhone talk to satellites? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluey Posted December 30, 2011 Author Share Posted December 30, 2011 If you have a 3G model iPad, you don't need a separate gps receiver as the built in gps in the iPad works without a 3G connection. You can use the gps in your iPhone by hotspotting it for the iPad but I have heard the gps is updated a bit too slowly for aviation. Bluey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J170 Owner Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 The iPad 3G has a True GPS. It is accurate within 15 feet.The iPad 3G is the model with GPS, wifi only ipad does not have GPS. It uses whats called an Assisted GPS. This means that it can find your location much faster than a normal GPS. First it uses the cellphone tower to get the city location for where your at. This means it knows right off the bat the general location/city your in and the actual GPS doesnt have to work as hard to pinpoint your exact location. If the 3G service on the iPad 3G model is disabled or unavailable the GPS will still function since it is a true GPS. If you get the iPad wifi only model, you will need to buy a seperate dedicated GPS receiver, such as the Bad Elf one mentioned above, but you can still access internet via your iPhone's 3G connection, when the two devices are paired/tethered/what ever you want to call it. 15 feet, boy I remember when 300 metres was the best us civilians could hope for, although for us pilots that was good enough. My GPS (Garmin Nuvi 255w) will actually show where I am in my back yard and even works indoors! How the hell that came about is beyond me because a few years ago, the thing would say it couldn't find any satellites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gundy Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 I deliberated over which one to buy as well. I ended up deciding on the wifi only because of price. All the info I sourced all said if you wanted great gps reception you have to buy a external Bluetooth gps reciever. Even the 3G model it will drop out. I'm very happy with the wifi and Bluetooth gps it has not given any trouble at all. BUT if I was going to buy another iPad now I would buy a 3G one plus the gps reciever because there has been one time I left the gps reciever in the car before start up on my plane. So unbuckle get out retrieve get back in all checks again then fly off. This particular flight was not a gps needed flight through I had just bought the iPad so was keen to play with it. They are a fantastic tool but Remember to KEEP a Lookout while flying. Gundy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tex Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 I checked them both out and at first had the WiFi only and hotspot to iPhone (4), even if the iPhone loses phone service the GPS link will still work. The down side is you can lose your Hotspot link pretty easily and it can be a nuisance to link them up again while flying, I traded up to the the WiFi 3G ONLY to have the in built GPS. I still just hotspot to the phone if internet is required. Yes, by the time you buy a WiFi only iPad and then the separate GPS module you are nearly at the same price as the iPad WiFi 3G. Personally one device to look after and to reduce size just the WiFi 3g is better for me. My advice is a definite GO for the WiFi 3G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gundy Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 I agree Tex buying a 3G but I'd get the Bluetooth gps module as well. The inbuilt gps is not very good it does loose reception. If you are relying on it as your only gps get the Bluetooth module. I carry a spare handheld gps as well as paper maps with my pencil lines on. I don't ever want to forget how to navigate the real way. Gundy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tex Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 I agree Tex buying a 3G but I'd get the Bluetooth gps module as well. The inbuilt gps is not very good it does loose reception. If you are relying on it as your only gps get the Bluetooth module. I carry a spare handheld gps as well as paper maps with my pencil lines on. I don't ever want to forget how to navigate the real way. Gundy Sure, good points I use the WAC and VTC's as back up, my thoughts on the blue tooth receiver is only that it becomes redundant, as I think the iPad itself is more vulnerable than its GPS reception, having a stand alone one is sure to help . Of course, all just a stop gap for dead reckoning, I really enjoy navigating the 'old way' so no arguments from me about that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tex Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 I made the attached for nav and fuel assistance if anyone is interested. Print double sided and you get 4 per A4 sheet for a small knee board/strap. Flight Plan Time Sheet Fuel Trans .pdf Flight Plan Time Sheet Fuel Trans .pdf Flight Plan Time Sheet Fuel Trans .pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushcaddy105 Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 I flew 5 hours this morning to get home before the heat (I didn't beat it then!) with my first real tryout of OzRunways on a secondhand iPad 1 3G version, and with the 3G function turned off. The inbuilt GPS never missed a beat, and the flight planning made it SO easy to set up the 3 legs of the flight. Just having the flight following (with HSI if you choose that option) overlaid onto a VNC provides real-time monitoring of control boundaries, frequencies, PRD areas, etc. For the record, the battery monitor showed 34% remaining at the end. Way to go! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatmal Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 I flew 5 hours this morning to get home before the heat (I didn't beat it then!) with my first real tryout of OzRunways on a secondhand iPad 1 3G version, and with the 3G function turned off. The inbuilt GPS never missed a beat, and the flight planning made it SO easy to set up the 3 legs of the flight. Just having the flight following (with HSI if you choose that option) overlaid onto a VNC provides real-time monitoring of control boundaries, frequencies, PRD areas, etc. For the record, the battery monitor showed 34% remaining at the end. Way to go! I did a nav the other day, using my iPad & OzRunways in realtime, and thinking back on the flight I didn't look outside enough! I spent too much time fiddling with the technology, and not enough time enjoying the flying and looking outside for landmarks and other traffic. OzRunways is, in my (humble) opinion, fabulous for planning and as a backup to manual processes (1st), and GPS (2nd) - next nav, I'm going back to the maps, paper log and a watch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaz3g Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 I agree Tex buying a 3G but I'd get the Bluetooth gps module as well. The inbuilt gps is not very good it does loose reception. If you are relying on it as your only gps get the Bluetooth module. I carry a spare handheld gps as well as paper maps with my pencil lines on. I don't ever want to forget how to navigate the real way. Gundy Yep, charts and ERSA are the legal requirement. I have one of Ian's 5" GPS's running Ozzie with the ASA charts loaded as my backup and it's very handy because it mounts on the panel straight in front of me. I don't plan on it but it always gives me a quick check against the ground and the chart... especially useful to avoid unplanned entry into CTA. kaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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