shags_j Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Seems strange. Never would have thought they would cause a weight issue (Can't be too much more than the hand brakes). Any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebutler Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Some that I have flown do have, Savannah XL, Sport Star and some Tecnams (an option on the Tecnams I believe) but yes there are a lot without toe brakes and on some you have to faf around swopping hands to operate the hand brake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne T Mathews Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Some do, some don't... I'm guessing complexity, and therefore cost, is probably the main reason some choose not to have differential foot braking... There's also the argument; if I've got nose wheel steering, why do I need differential brakes on light aircraft? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 The answer to that Wayne is try turning a Jab down a taxyway while braking, to give another aircraft a chance to land. (a) the brakes are working against the nosewheel, cancelling out differential action (b) With toe brakes you can set up a lot more turning angle on the nose wheel, because you're not relying on just nosewheel resistance to get you round. Toe brakes are particularly an advantage when parking wing tip to wing tip in a tight area. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne T Mathews Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I understand and agree Turbs. In my opinion, differential brakes are much better (I keep saying differential 'cause the Cub has heel brakes) no matter where the tailwheel is (front or back ). But the fact is some people think they don't need diferential brakes, and I'm not going to bother arguing with them... Hell, there's even people out there who reckon they don't need ailerons... and I'm not going to argue with them either, because in their aircraft, they probably don't need them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farri Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 The Zenith CH 701 comes with haydraulic toe-brakes, on the pilots side! Rudder pedals on both sides steer the nose-wheel. Frank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Savannah has toe brakes each brake has its own master cylinder to the disc on each wheel so it has differential braking that works really well Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guernsey Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I have flown just about every type, toe brakes, heel brakes hand brake steerable etc etc. The Morgan Sierra has very good differential toe brakes, however it does not have a steerable nosewheel, I wish it had both but there is always a trade-off. In this case it would be more drag and more weight, however using the brakes with a castoring nose wheel does allow you to turn on the spot, oh well, you can't have it all ways. Alan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 The Sav has steerable nose gear as well as the differential toe brakes so it turns on a dime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil_S Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Get a Gazelle, mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guernsey Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Get a Gazelle, mate. They are pretty good with steering as well, I have flown one out of Couloundra (think I've spelled that wrong) but it is just a tad slower than the 135 knot Morgan. Alan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Probably got something to do with complexity to a certain extent. I don't find hand brakes all that hard, just a bit trickier... heel, toe, hand on the stick, on the floor, by your side, or none... every single aircraft I've flown is different! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robinsm Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 xair, differential cable toe brakes and steerable nose wheel. A little more direct than the gazelle but very similar. Flew a lightwing with heel brakes, I guess its an acquired taste but found I kept putting the brakes on when I went to steer it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shags_j Posted March 13, 2012 Author Share Posted March 13, 2012 Sorry guys, I really don't understand the difference between differential brakes and the "other" brakes. Can someone dumb it down for me at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 differential brakes mean each wheel has its own separate braking system. each toe brake works on each wheel this way you can turn by braking only 1 wheel and if you have steerable nose wheel as well you can turn on a small spot other brakes are just std brakes 2 wheels at the same time like in a car Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne T Mathews Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Sorry guys, I really don't understand the difference between differential brakes and the "other" brakes. Can someone dumb it down for me at all? Good morning Shags, Differential brakes are where we have two brake "pedals". One for the left main wheel, and the other for the right main wheel. They work independantly of each other and as a result, can be used to steer the aircraft by applying "drag" to the left wheel to make the aircraft turn left, as an example. Normal brakes, like in a car, only have one brake "pedal" (in aircraft, it's usually a hand lever of some sort) which applies equal brake pressure to both (or all) wheels at the same time. So "normal" brakes can not be used to "steer" the aircraft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgwilson Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 The Morgan Sierra has very good differential toe brakes, however it does not have a steerable nosewheel, I wish it had both but there is always a trade-off. Alan, There are Cheetahs &/or Sierras out there with a steerable nosewheel, probably installed by the builder. There was one for sale in the Mag recently. Most aircraft I've flown have steerable nosewheel & differential brakes but I am going for the castoring nosewheel on my Sierra as it is simpler and I don't have a problem with steering using just brakes and the substantial Sierra rudder. With the Jab 3.3 motor you can just about spin the Sierra in its own length fully applying one of the WE51L Matco discs given that each one has a rated 1200 lb static load capacity. Kevin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Differential brakes are almost a requirement for turning in significant winds. Most nosewheels are very weak and can easily be overloaded in lightly constructed aircraft. If you have both,( individual brakes and a steerable nosewheel) you can do a nice coordinated effort , that minimises loads on the steering. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shags_j Posted March 14, 2012 Author Share Posted March 14, 2012 Legend Wayne. Makes a huge amount of sense now. Thanks. So every GA Aircraft i've flown has differential brakes, all the RA's do not (as discussed though some do). How much extra weight or cost would they add. If I were to look at a Cheetah kit, how much extra to get a differential brake kit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guernsey Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Legend Wayne. Makes a huge amount of sense now. Thanks.So every GA Aircraft i've flown has differential brakes, all the RA's do not (as discussed though some do). How much extra weight or cost would they add. If I were to look at a Cheetah kit, how much extra to get a differential brake kit? Comes with the aircraft it is just the steerable part that is optional. Alan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltacharlie Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 I have always driven a manual car so my left foot pressure tends to be higher then my right. Until I got the feel some of my early attempts at breaking C152 were sort of.....interesting. Good for frightening those young instructors, though. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne T Mathews Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 In my opinion, the extra weight and/or cost of putting both differential braking and tailwheel/nosewheel steering on your aircraft, is irrelevant... In my opinion, if you have the option to have both, then take both... But then I was in an incident once where the aircraft only had a castoring nosewheel, and the R/H brake failed. So maybe I'm being over sensitive... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guernsey Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Alan,There are Cheetahs &/or Sierras out there with a steerable nosewheel, probably installed by the builder. There was one for sale in the Mag recently. Most aircraft I've flown have steerable nosewheel & differential brakes but I am going for the castoring nosewheel on my Sierra as it is simpler and I don't have a problem with steering using just brakes and the substantial Sierra rudder. With the Jab 3.3 motor you can just about spin the Sierra in its own length fully applying one of the WE51L Matco discs given that each one has a rated 1200 lb static load capacity. Kevin I agree with you Kevin but I just find that whilst there are advantages with the Morgan very strong castoring nosewheel, I do find it a bit of a pain when taxiing slowly (rudder not effective) with a strong cross wind and have to continually apply brake on one wheel to remain straight. Alan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guernsey Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 When I owned my Tyro Ultralight it had no brakes just an opening below your legs so that you could use your toes (toe brakes) or your heels (heel brakes), too bloody painful so I covered in the opening and fitted a hand brake. Alan. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne T Mathews Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 When I owned my Tyro Ultralight it had no brakes just an opening below your legs Alan. Yabba dabba doo Barney... I used to have one o' them handbrake thingies on my billycart. When I used both hands and really pulled on it, I could get at least one of the back wheels off the ground. And some times the billy cart slowed down... But it scared the horses so they made me stop using it... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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