Neville75 Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 With respect Neville, I don't think CAR166 applies in Germany which I understand is where that video was shot.I'm also not sure that it's fair to draw parallels with the recent accident, as that appears to have happened away from an airfield. Those videos were shot at an airfield where there are no power lines around the field. You're right fair call, I did notice the aircraft rego, obviously didn't put two and two together. Whilst there may not be powerlines at many certified airfields, we've seen many a hazard - cars on adjacent roads (USA) etc. I guess my thoughts were that he's obviously pushing safety margins pretty hard, and if something were to go wrong there's very little chance to recover. Only have to visit youtube to see airshow performances of steep turns or cases of low flying ground go horribly wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neville75 Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Nev: To follow on from what you said: How many times have we heard the phrase "He was a very experienced pilot" of a recently deceased? It was the case with Des, it's now the case with the guy at Burrum, etc etc ad nauseum. Too often for sure! Often I ponder if the experienced can come to grief, what chance I with a skinny new logbook. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 There's no doubt the man knows his machine and as said before, who knows how many times he has flown that same approach. He's perfected it for his own pleasure , and now ours !........good luck to him !..........probabily an ex-skydiver (maybe still one). They are the one's pushing the envelopes for us !.........enjoy...............................Maj... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motzartmerv Posted December 18, 2012 Author Share Posted December 18, 2012 he's certainly enjoying himself. Dont try this one at home though :) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poteroo Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 What isn't obvious is that he probably added flaps in the turn off downwind, which decreases the stall speed and cancels out the effect of the steep turn on stall speed. Works fine provided that you are able to increase the nose down to cope with the drag of the flaps. It's possible to time the last of the flap extension so that the drag coming on is just 'cancelled' by rolling wings level and touching down before W>L. It's not an unusual aggie turn onto final. Works a treat with C180/185 where the flap can be 'clicked in' as the turn progresses with full flap coming on just as you roll level and touch down. happy days, 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentreau Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 It also looks like he carried a great deal of energy into that final turn and even into the flare, judging by the length of the landing roll (the Dornier is STOL). It also appears from the first video that he had options on the final turn should anything go wrong as there is a large open space in the area where you would normally be flying finals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metalman Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 he's certainly enjoying himself. Dont try this one at home though :) I can't actually see the link, might be an iPad thing, can someone post the link or some search words? Met Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djpacro Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Doesn't show on my iPad either and this forum converts the link to imbedded media so still can't see it! Get rid of the spaces below and try http://www. liveleak.com/view?i=20a_1355531018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deskpilot Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 As an aside, I've always liked that Dornier style of engine mount. Leaves the wings clean and free to do their job. Maybe that's why he can do what he does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffreywh Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Quote from a previous post............. "The pilot who can't handle more than 30 deg angle on bank will be a gonner doing a tight turn around after engine failure"....That is soooo not a good thing to even speak out loud......................, There is a whole chapter in the new mag on why that kind of thinking will probably kill you..................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltacharlie Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 i just want to know what he is flying? Here's some more on the aircraft http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?regsearch=HA-ACY&distinct_entry=true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 What is being done there is a typical "syndrome" of making a fairly boring repetitive job interesting. You keep pushing the boundaries. There is not much left there to push further as the plane did actually go through the centreline and have to get back and the roll to wings level had nothing left spare. ( time or height). The bank angle at about 70 degrees is no big deal as long as the speed is right, the plane won't stall and he always has plenty of energy even though he is bleeding it off during the turn. I wouldn't compare this with Bob Hoover's routine which is not dangerous at all even though his routine involves a longer timeframe and more actions. Bob shuts down his engines while rolling at height and if he misjudged any part of it there wouldn't be the dire consequences that face this pilot, who no doubt has had plenty of practice and has "progressed" to the action shown. No room for error there now so if he pushes it further ... THAT is the danger. He can always take off bank and the plane is immediately better off but he won't be pointing at the runway. That is the way out. Nev 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nunans Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 Just watched hoover cut the engines just above the runway then loop, roll while climbing out then make a 180 deg turn back and land beside the runway. So much for not turning back after an engine failure. The mass of the big twin he was flying must be what makes the difference. Our ultralights just don't have the inertia to do anything but nose down and decend once the prop stops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 Bob's routine is an exercise in energy management. The plane he uses is usually an aero commander which is fairly clean. ( gear up).. Height (potential) and velocity (kinetic) is what he uses. He finishes by rolling slowly up to a point on the taxyway and parking it, all with the engines feathered. It's an impressive thing. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barney181269 Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 A Dornier 28http://www.flugzeuginfo.net/acimages/do28d2_kp.jpg .[/quo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howard Hughes Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 I'm not sure if I should be shocked or impressed, probably that later. That is some seriously good flying! PS: What sort of flying machine is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 They have been making versions of it since the 60's. The one used there is PT-6 engined I think. Most of them are piston engined. Looks like the right thing for Para jumps. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motzartmerv Posted December 20, 2012 Author Share Posted December 20, 2012 I'm not sure if I should be shocked or impressed, probably that later. That is some seriously good flying! I know hey. Its hard. It looks dangerous as hell, but ......;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nunans Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 I just love the way he stuck the wheeler! I wish I could grease it on like that just once.... It took him 2 minutes from the last jumper exiting 'till he was at the tree height! would have been at least 5000'/min vert speed. Ear popping experience for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultralights Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 looks ok to me, he had plenty of energy in reserve, the turn wasnt that low when you pause the outside vid and have a look. he nailed the landing and dead on centre line. he knew what he was doing. now to really get your knickers in the anti fun knot... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motzartmerv Posted December 20, 2012 Author Share Posted December 20, 2012 Hahaha... An oldie but a goodie... Really not just flying skill but shows off what an awesome aircraft it is... :) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Head in the clouds Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Bob's routine is an exercise in energy management..... Doubles at 2:25 and 4:30, spin at 5:20 and don't miss the triple at 6:25 Aaaargh what happens if he has an engine failure..... . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SAJabiruflyer Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 I'll add my 2.2c (GST inc) worth... flying like that takes a lot of skill. However it also means you are flying without the benefit of the safety margins built in by performing proper descents, proper circuits etc. Great to watch, but not for me. Kinda reminds me of "Here hold my beer and watch THIS" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Head in the clouds Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 ... flying like that takes a lot of skill. However it also means you are flying without the benefit of the safety margins built in by performing proper descents, proper circuits etc.... Nope - what is a proper descent? I saw nothing improper in his descent, a commercial reality of flying jumpers is getting up and down as fast as possible because jumpers pay by the jump, not by the aircraft hours flown. I've seen most jump pilots using spiral dives to descend at Vne and even some that spin down if the machine is approved for intentional spins, there's nothing wrong with either method as far as I can see. How many folks stall/spin/crash in the circuit? The answer from NTSB was 346 in the last year in the USA. So a proper circuit isn't a safety margin either, he has huge amounts of the only safety margin that's at all relevant here - speed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bones Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Looks pretty much like a standard gyro landing actually :) Have a look at the end of this clip you see what i mean. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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