68volksy Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 With all the who-ha that's currently going on about how useless everyone is I figured i'd stir the good old pot a little differently. There's so much soup on the floor at the moment it can't do much damage ;-). Who's up for a good old-fashioned re-emergence of the ultralight federation? Perhaps with a max VNO limit to keep those pesky plastic fantastics away and to focus the attention of a volunteer board and staff on their job? With just a few thousand members it should make the admin workload a little easier also. I haven't been around the aviation circles for that long but i hear too many stories of how simple and easy things "used to be"... 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teckair Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 I haven't been around the aviation circles for that long but i hear too many stories of how simple and easy things "used to be"... Yep I miss those days, the general opinion is it would all be too hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guernsey Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 What aircraft weight limit did you have in mind and how many of those older types would still be flying. ie we would have a much smaller organisation than we used to have and so may not be viable. I do miss it though. Alan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyfox1 Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 YES bring back the good old days im in couldn't be any worse whats going on now . rag and tube only .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank marriott Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 No - Living in a fantasy world will not work - The past is the past just accept it. What happened years ago will not be accepted in the modern society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guernsey Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 YES bring back the good old days im in could be any worse whats going on now .rag and tube only .. Aw shucks skyfox, couldn't we include the Rag Tube and Fibreglass......Winton Swing Wing, Sapphire etc. Alan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teckair Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 YES bring back the good old days im in could be any worse whats going on now .rag and tube only .. What is rag and tube? Does that include Lightwings and the Skyfox? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guernsey Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 No - Living in a fantasy world will not work - The past is the past just accept it. What happened years ago will not be accepted in the modern society. All of you guys in the Antique Aircraft Association had better burn all of your aircraft. Only joking Frank, I do get your point. Alan. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyfox1 Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 What is rag and tube? Does that include Lightwings and the Skyfox? Yes all those lighter weight aircraft no plastic fantastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howard Hughes Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Would probably go the same way as Ansett Mark II. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teckair Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 What aircraft weight limit did you have in mind and how many of those older types would still be flying. ie we would have a much smaller organisation than we used to have and so may not be viable.I do miss it though. Alan. There are plenty of the older types still flying. When we were a much smaller organisation we were way better off than we are now if you remember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodo Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 If the RPL is successful, it may achieve most of Volksy's objectives by encouraging light GA flying under CASA rather than RA. RA currently has a huge attraction in that no CASA medical is required to fly. Even for those with no current or past medical issues, this may be a factor. It is unclear how the RPL is developing, but it may be interesting. I believe one of the current challenges for RA is that it is increasingly taking on low-end GA responsibilities, and being pushed towards GA-style regulation. dodo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andys@coffs Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Well you know I've said before I think it's a bad idea to purposely allow us to be divided, but in the end it's your decision. However talking about it here alone will not make it happen. You guys who feel strongly about it should meet, put a plan in place and work towards achieving it rather than just talking about it. Andy P.s if you do decide to move beyond just talking about it, don't invite me, I'm more interested in fixing what we already have which works for all of us ultimately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cscotthendry Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Well you know I've said before I think it's a bad idea to purposely allow us to be divided, but in the end it's your decision.However talking about it here alone will not make it happen. You guys who feel strongly about it should meet, put a plan in place and work towards achieving it rather than just talking about it. Andy P.s if you do decide to move beyond just talking about it, don't invite me, I'm more interested in fixing what we already have which works for all of us ultimately. +1 for this. United we stand, divided we fall. If our current organisation is broken, then we need to face the problems and solve them, not just run away from them. Running away from problems NEVER solves anything. It's arguable that it just makes things worse. In fact I'd go so far as to say that in regard to RA-Aus and society in general, we're in the mess we're in because we tend to avoid issues rather than deal with them. We let things fester until we're at crisis point and then we implement some knee jerk reaction that tends to end up benefitting, not the whole population, but a few clever individuals who know how to exploit crises. But that's just human nature and the nature of predators I guess. Honestly, I think the WORST thing we could do right now is to start distracting ourselves and splintering our efforts by trying to AVOID solving the problems in our existing organisation. If people feel that "something needs to be done" then the most productive thing I can think of is to get behind those who are trying to make changes. If those trying to make changes end up to be as bad or worse than their predecessors, then they in their turn should be replaced and the process should be repeated until some kind of rationality returns. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ozzie Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 What we have to do first is get rid of these control freaks in CASA and the RAAus. I would be quite happy with going back to not having to belong to anything. An FAR 103 would suit me fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyfox1 Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 If it was a sick animal like the RAA is we would put it down and rear a new one no good wasting money on a lost cause. Start fresh . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodo Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 In either fixing the existing the current organisation,or starting a new one, you need to be very clear about what your objectives are. I am not much interested in a new organisation, but I would like to see changes in the existing one: - better communication and information to members; - improved governance, process, administration. However, if you look at how the organisation is run, I see the following: - good financial position, indicative of good financial management (despite governance issues) -reasonably good regulation, not overly heavy handed (despite process, administration and current registration issues), although tending to become prescriptive. - definitely being run for the membership. So I would rather fix the problems we have. dodo 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Greed Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 In all organisations the most parochial members/players can be your greatest strength but also your greatest weakness. I think the postings on this site support that assumption. Most of us resist change and long for the good old days of systems built around common sense, fellowship and a sense of doing the right thing.....no need for regulation or rule books because we all sing from the same song sheet. That pretty much describes a Club..........but not a multi-million dollar business operation. Time to put some of those preconceived notions away and direct that traditional passion and energy into reshaping RAAus. These are very exciting times if we can dispatch some of the baggage of the past. Pete 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teckair Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Well you know I've said before I think it's a bad idea to purposely allow us to be divided, but in the end it's your decision.However talking about it here alone will not make it happen. You guys who feel strongly about it should meet, put a plan in place and work towards achieving it rather than just talking about it. Andy P.s if you do decide to move beyond just talking about it, don't invite me, I'm more interested in fixing what we already have which works for all of us ultimately. A lot of people have thought and talked about it but it is widely thought to be too hard to do. To go to the GM and suggest it as you once advised me to do would be a complete waste of time as I imagine you would have already known. What I am annoyed about is the things which have happened with no consultation like, the name change from the AUF and the introduction of LSA our organisation has been hijacked by self interested people and all but destroyed. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 The past is not the future. You fella's are being sentimental and I can agree with that. If you go off on your own you will be a curiosity separated from the mainstream having No say really, with no real friends and no guarantee of support from the "REGULATORS". You could be picked off. The whole thing must end up being under some kind of umbrella anyhow , eventually when all the turf wars subside. Don't divide your energies. The ship is going through rough seas but is still afloat. United you stand , divided you (may) fall. Nev 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guernsey Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 A lot of people have thought and talked about it but it is widely thought to be too hard to do. To go to the GM and suggest it as you once advised me to do would be a complete waste of time as I imagine you would have already known. What I am annoyed about is the things which have happened with no consultation like, the name change from the AUF and the introduction of LSA our organisation has been hijacked by self interested people and all but destroyed. There was consultation with the whole membership with the new name suggestions coming from the membership it became RAA but because we were using the name of the Automobile Association in South Australia we had to modify it to its present form. Alan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teckair Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 There was consultation with the whole membership with the new name suggestions coming from the membership it became RAA but because we were using the name of the Automobile Association in South Australia we had to modify it to its present form.Alan. Yes I do remember something about it but why did we have to change at all? Maybe because we changed direction away from ultralights? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nunans Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 It is unclear how the RPL is developing, but it may be interesting. I believe one of the current challenges for RA is that it is increasingly taking on low-end GA responsibilities, and being pushed towards GA-style regulation. dodo Absolutely right dodo, alot of the newest members of Ra aus have no interest in ultralights or open aircraft, certainly not two strokes. I heard just recently a new RAaus member (from GA background) saying there's no way he'd go up in a thruster as the aircraft type "doesn't look right". He's missing out on a whole lot of fun, I only flew in one for the first time this year and loved every second of it. If people like that stay in GA then all the better for our organisation. Reading the "looking forward" section of the supposed auditors report folded into this months mag, it's most concerning to learn of the treasurers attitude towards further profits, growth, even more weight and airspace. He goes as far as saying "This (growth) must continue,... as a treasurer, i see that we have reached a size that growth helps our income." Our organisation isn't a dividend paying publically listed company so why is increasing our income and membership more important than keeping our existing privaleges and registrations in order??? Maybe our treasurer is an Allan Joyce wannabe! My thinking is along the lines of dodo in that Auf II won't be needed as RPL will see RAaus loose alot of members that were only here for medical reasons. Then if we can get growth and income out of the heads of our executive then we'll be doing alright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nunans Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Yes I do remember something about it but why did we have to change at all? Maybe because we changed direction away from ultralights? Maybe the word "ultralight" turned potential new GA members off joining so in the interest of income the organisation changed its name to something a little more palatable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 It had a lot to do with getting insurance. The two strokes became impossible to ensure in a flying training role. Recreational aviation sounds better than Ultralight. There was also a concept of anticipating the growth and trying to be the centre of it. Some would say that was a clever move. We all know the movement has grown beyond most expectations. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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