ayavner Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 I haven't had a chance to try this out for myself, but if I see that a runway is listed as having pilot-activated lighting, for example 3 1-second pulses on whatever frequency, what is the duration for that? Say if I am doing circuits, if I key it before i take off, will they still be on when I turn on final? Or is that mostly a night/after hours thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandit12 Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Definately a night flying thing - probably wouldn't go looking to try it unless you need to for fear of attracting unwanted attention. From memory the ones that I used when flying NVFR stayed on for about 20-30 minutes. My memory is a little rusty though. Plenty of time to do an approach, join circuit and land, or taxi, take off and do a couple of circuits anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayavner Posted December 20, 2012 Author Share Posted December 20, 2012 Oh, Ok but wouldn't need to worry about it during the day then? Thinking about the PAPI lights etc. those would be on during normal hours then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandit12 Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 PAPI lights are normally on during the day I believe. At least I have seen them operating during the day, but I usually just ignore them as a distraction. IFR guys and gals may feel differently about them I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Think PAL blinks for a while before going off. If you use any Precision approach lighting, it should give you a 3 degree slope and you will touch down a bit further in than you would normally. It's configured for large aircraft which have the wheels a long way from your eyes. If you are doing a powered approach you may get something out of referencing the lights just for practice. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayavner Posted December 20, 2012 Author Share Posted December 20, 2012 I just noticed them for the first time the other day, so can't really say they are a distraction or even a help or hindrance. But it got me curious, so I've been reading up on them a bit. Pretty cool system I think! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Takes the guesswork out of being close It's considered pretty essential for jet operations. Some engines don't spool up quickly and at the other end, often high power is used on approach into a strong headwind, so you need to be on the ball. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metalman Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Met Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Haven't heard that but it's a relevent comment. Small planes can see a lot of red late on final and be OK. it's probably configured for wheels being 45 feet behind and about 15 feet below. You still look at your aim point but your peripheral notices the colour. You can have the intensity varied . Just ask the tower. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metalman Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Met Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mAgNeToDrOp Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 We used them once as the wind was blowing hard down 27 and the sun was setting, decided to wait for the sun to drop behind the horizon, gives you another 10 mins or so before last light, enough to do a circuit and land, activated the lights it was like Xmas :) landed with plenty of light to spare. It's safer than landing into the sun or trying the cross runway which would've been a hairy crosswind..... Having the instructor with me also helped as I wouldn't want to cut it that fine normally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank marriott Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 PAPI & T-VASI are for larger aircraft not doing an ILS a decent similar to an ILS The flashing light is on the primary wind sock indicator to inform you that the lights are about to time out - reactivating the PAL system resets the timer If you are not aware of the criteria then you should not be in a position where you need PAL lighting. If you are flying under RAA rules you should already be on the ground. If you are flying GA and are unsure then you need more training...... Frank 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metalman Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Your right , Met Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 PAPI & T-VASI are for larger aircraft not doing an ILS a decent similar to an ILSThe flashing light is on the primary wind sock indicator to inform you that the lights are about to time out - reactivating the PAL system resets the timer If you are not aware of the criteria then you should not be in a position where you need PAL lighting. If you are flying under RAA rules you should already be on the ground. If you are flying GA and are unsure then you need more training...... Frank Frank is spot on. While sleeping next to my plane one night (ready for a very early flight) some passing aircraft activated the lights. A rude awakening! They stayed on over a half hour then flashed for a good five minutes before switching off. A couple of miles of runway lights, and the terminal and wind socks lit up like day; it must have loaded up a power station. No wonder airport owners want to impose landing fees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 I don't rule anything out. You might get a real smoky day from a bushfire that you didn't anticipate in the area. Use what is available. Strobe lights are at some aerodromes too, and if you really got caught out a radar vector to a primary airport might be the best option. Nev 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayavner Posted December 22, 2012 Author Share Posted December 22, 2012 Reining this back in... don't think anyone was implying anything about relying on them in RAAus or being in a position where I needed them without knowing how to use them.. I just thought they were interesting, asked a question, and got the answer (post #2). However, to expand the conversation (without any implication whatsoever of anticipated improper use), my understanding is that the lights are aimed in such a way that it appears white from a certain height, and red from a slightly lower height - and that the 2 sets are offset in their settings so that one gives the upper and lower limit of the top of the glide slope range, and the other gives the upper and lower limit of the bottom of the glide slope range. That being the case, if my eyes are 400' AGL looking at the lights from 1/2 nm out, how could it distinguish whether i am in a Jab or a Jumbo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 It doesn't differentiate but it is set up so suit the eye to wheel distance of a larger plane so you will touch down further down the strip in a little plane. Nev 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poteroo Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 A good reason that country airport owners are unhappy to publish the light frequency is that absolute idiots fly past at night clicking on their VHF and running up a huge power bill for the local ratepayers!! If you don't need them, and you're unqualified to use them - please don't play around. Someone may really need those lights,(perhaps RFDS),. happy days, 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank marriott Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 ayavner If you haven't already found it P228/229 of the VFG explains in detail what info the lights display 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaz3g Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 A good reason that country airport owners are unhappy to publish the light frequency is that absolute idiots fly past at night clicking on their VHF and running up a huge power bill for the local ratepayers!! If you don't need them, and you're unqualified to use them - please don't play around. Someone may really need those lights,(perhaps RFDS),.happy days, I happened to be at my airport rather late on Friday night. I fuelled the Auster and then decided to wash it but didn't finish until around 10.30 pm. The lights came on three times while I was there as aircraft approached overhead. Only one landed and all three headed off towards Mangalore. I would have thought Shepparton stuck out like a sore thumb on a clear night, but... kaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 Look, I can make the airport lights come on down there. Just watch. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motzartmerv Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 The lights being turned on by passing acft is probably a safety thing or a nav thing. Navigating visually at night Is quite challenging and runways are an excellent feature to use. I highly doubt pilots are turning them in to amuse themselves. Learning how to turn them on could one day save your bacon, so I reckon we shouldn't rule it out just cause we are raa. Cheers 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motzartmerv Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 Ps. Merry Xmas!!!!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted December 25, 2012 Share Posted December 25, 2012 Yeah Andy. I'm probably being unfair (to some). There was 737 driver at Launceston who didn't know how to activate the lights (make it the 2 of them) and took off just using their landing lights. They obviously NEVER did it for fun (or for learning). They copped it from the authorities. Nev 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryanm Posted December 26, 2012 Share Posted December 26, 2012 Overflying aircraft may turn them on during training... as has been said.. best you know how to use it rather than trying to figure it out in IMC on an instrument approach. I highly doubt the crew of a 737 decided "bugger it lets go anyway".... Personally I think this is a great topic. Regardless if you have a rec pilots certificate or an ATPL; having an idea how the lights work may save your life one day. Much like instrument flying during PPL/CPL training. How to operate the different lights PAL vs PAL-AFRU are in the front of ERSA and the rules regarding their use is in the AIP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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