Compulsion Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 I was flying from Gawler to the Clare valley last weekend. The cloud base was at 3500 feet and scattered cloud. Flying under a cloud was turbulent and if I tried to fly lower the thermals came in. Would it be better to climb above the cloud as long as it is scattered and you can see the ground at all times? The flight was tiring fighting to maintain good control during the flight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metalman Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 VFR on top has some serious pitfalls, the cloud can close in beneath you and before you realize you're stuck on top . Another gotcha is to fly between layers of cloud , they can very sneakily join up up and you will be left with no options. personally I never go on top if its more than 2-3/8 and even then I keep a close watch on my exit behind me, also never ,ever over high or mountianous ground,you just never know where/what that hole will pop out into . I'd get used to the turbulence before I'd mess with cloud, or just not fly in those conditions, but if your already in it or have flown into a rough neiborhood try to relax and not fight the aircraft, and slow the plane down so as to not over stress the airframe. Bumps can be hard to get used to but a lot of it is a confidence thing, find some one who does upset recovery courses and spin training ( GA of course) and get into some crazy attitudes, there's a couple of guys I can recommend in the Melbourne area and I'm sure some one will be doing it in SA, Met 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapphire Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 A Sapphire I used to fly was like a tumble dryer. The rule you could not fly above 5000 feet without approval applied then, don't know now. As said fly as high as possible and dont let cloud cover force you IMC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REastwood Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Also, it can be hard to determine the height of the tops of the cloud, you are concentrating on climbing above the cloud tops without realising you've busted into controlled airspace! Read the AIP ENR 1.2-4 for the visibility and cloud separation requirements. Scattered is 3-4 eighths (i.e 37.5% to 50%) and if there are different layers remember SCT + SCT = BKN etc. You must be able to fix your position at least every 30min (see AIP ENR 1.1 19.2.1), so as long as you can meet the above then it is generally better above the layer then below. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yenn Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Does anyone know why they changed from "octas' to the present format which is not easy to work out. I can estimate the eights and then to have to give it a name is a pain in the butt. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf jessup Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Compulsion, You are flying a very strong airframe there with the Jabiru, your plane is probably about 10 times stronger than your comfort zone. Turbulence is all about your comfort zone, not many people like it and a lot more over control the aircraft which tends to make things feel a lot worse that it might actually be. I have grown up with trike flying and rest assured you feel thermals and turbulence about 5 times more than you do with 3 axis. My advice is just try to relax and let the plane ride it out with minimal control input and tension from the pilot. As for on top of scattered cloud awesome up there aslong as it doesn't close in on you or you don't enter restricted airspace. Alf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 If you fly under "fair weather Cu" fluffy tops with flat bottoms you will have an updraft under each cloud. The flat bottom is caused by the humidity and that is the condensation level. The deeper the cloud the more intense the updraft which continues above the cloud as well. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cscotthendry Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Check out the weather before you fly. If you're going cross country, it's imperative to get an idea of what to expect en route. Are the conditions expected to improve or deteriorate or stay the same. If they are going to stay the same or improve and you are among legal amounts of cloud then on top is smoother. If the forecast is doubtful, definitely stay below. When it gets too rough for your comfort zone get down and wait it out. Better to be down here wishing you were up there, than the other way round. On the other hand if you're just doing a local flight you'll probably have a better idea of what the weather might do. In any case, as everyone else says, keep a very close eye on whether the clouds are joining up. Even if you're below them it probably won't be good if scattered clouds are becoming contiguous cloud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Compulsion Posted January 30, 2013 Author Share Posted January 30, 2013 Thanks all. Good advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabiru7252 Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Hi John. When flying on a day with cloud it is hard to tell how cloudy it is when you are close to the cloud base. The trick is to look at the shadows on the ground to get a feel for how much cloud is about (and any wind by watching the cloud shadow move). I have flown above the cloud when there were only a few floating about, definately smoother flying. Cloud distance can be hard to judge when you decide to fly down through a hole to get underneath. Flying to Melbourne once we did a steep decending turn between clouds and flew into one, big surprise as we thought we had plenty of room. The pilot was instrument rated and we were in and out in under five seconds, no dents or scratched paint. 500 feet or 2000 feet away, the big fluffy stuff looks much the same. I guess the concrete is down and your plane is back in the hangar. I'll have a sticky beak next weekend. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howard Hughes Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Clouds are not to be feared, although they are to be treated with respect! The important thing about pushing your comfort zone is to always have a 'plan B', and also a 'plan C', the secret is to never run out of options, even if it means a 180 degree turn! Nothing wrong with a bit of 'VFR on top', the ride is nearly always smoother on top, than it is below! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Cloud shadows on the ground are a very good gauge of the extent of the cover. Just below and in the cloud are the worst places to be as the energy of the water vapour becoming water releases heat energy,. (Change of state). Water vapour is colourless and the visible cloud is water droplets. Avoid being close to clouds that are of cauliflower appearance and especially if the tops are climbing rapidly. (active Cu).. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapphire Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Up into the dark concave of a developing cu in a glider is scary. You cant see the horizon, the air is damp and suddenly icy cold. Gliders have been sucked up into them with nose pointing vertically down. Too much even for a disney land ride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68volksy Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 A Sapphire I used to fly was like a tumble dryer. The rule you could not fly above 5000 feet without approval applied then, don't know now. As said fly as high as possible and dont let cloud cover force you IMC Both a radio and endorsement on it are needed for flight above 5000 feet. Also need written approval from CASA for a flight to proceed above 10000 feet. "An aeroplane, to which this Order applies, may only be flown at a height of 5 000 feet above mean sea level or higher if it is equipped with serviceable radiotelephone equipment and the pilot is qualified to use it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgwilson Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 Clouds are really interesting. There are Stratus, Cumulous, and Cirrus clouds and depending upon the dew point and lapse rate & therefore the altitude where they reside, there are combinations of these (Stratocumulous, Altostratus, Altocumulous, Cumulonimbus & Cirrocumulous. There are also clouds caused by waves (wind having to go over mountain ranges) called Lenticular clouds. The ones interesting to Glider & Hang Glider pilots are Cumulous and Lenticular as they provide lift. There is a lot published on the subject and the web is no exception. Get to know what they are all about and understand their immense power and you can use them to your great advantage but without the knowledge keep clear or they could be your greatest enemy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howard Hughes Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 Clouds are really interesting. There are Stratus, Cumulous, and Cirrus clouds and depending upon the dew point and lapse rate & therefore the altitude where they reside, there are combinations of these (Stratocumulous, Altostratus, Altocumulous, Cumulonimbus & Cirrocumulous. There are also clouds caused by waves (wind having to go over mountain ranges) called Lenticular clouds. You missed my two favourite clouds, Mammatus and Pyro Cumulus! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andys@coffs Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 The one to be most cautious of is CumuloGranitus, being the mountain range that is in the middle of the cloud. Clouds that suck you up, or toss you about are nothing next to the cloud that destroys you immediately! Bottom line...Dont go there, there be dragons! Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 Don't go near the downwind side of Anvil cirrus( The squared off top of a big Cb) There's usually large hail ready to drop on you. You can be in clear air and 20 Kms away and still cop it. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guernsey Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 Be very careful as they can certainly cloud your judgement. Alan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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