M61A1 Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 Well that's not really rag and tube though, so that's a third direction. I've tried to make it quite clear that the the aircraft type is not my issue , why the obsession with rag & tube? One example, that may explain the sort of thing I am trying to get across is, the discussion on this forum, where some want ATSB to investigate all our accidents. While this may be very nice, it is VERY expensive, to recover costs of such investigations, one would think that if they provide you with and answer to your crash, it would be reasonable that they demand that your organisation the create new legislatation or more processes to attempt to make sure they dont have to investigate a crash with the same cause again. Of course there are advantages to understanding the causes of an accident/incident, particularly in regard to structural failures. That said aircraft failures do not figure highly in the statistics, and pilots dont find new ways to kill themselves. The outcome- safety and legal people are happy, the administration costs go through the roof, and pilots are more restricted. Another scenario, which have also seen on this forum, someone asks for an opinion, someone offers an opinion, then someone else then dives in and berates that poster and similar posts, so opinions no longer flow freely. This happens in most meetings I've ever been in, so ultimately he who talks the loudest usually gets what he wants, if you're lucky maybe what he wants is what you want too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teckair Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 I've tried to make it quite clear that the the aircraft type is not my issue , why the obsession with rag & tube? Its just a term used for affordable ultralights nothing more nothing less and does not mean other designs are not included. Still the same story just winging on the forum what do you hope to achieve doing that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ozzie Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 FAR103 type of ruling will fix most of the over regulation. Getting people to actually understand what a real ultralight is would be a big step foreward as well. Low and slow and lightweight. I think the reason the real grass roots pilots don't speak up to loud is they don't want to attract attention. If the masses finally woke up to how much fun we are having we would get more regulation for our trouble. all the old school i know want out of the RAAus not more involvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teckair Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 all the old school i know want out of the RAAus not more involvement. How are they going to achieve that? Stop flying? Fly illegally? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnarly Gnu Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 I'm disappointed we can't have multi engine, turbines or rocket assist. Love to be the first to crack the sound barrier in an ultralight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 all the old school i know want out of the RAAus not more involvement.How are they going to achieve that? Stop flying? Fly illegally? Well, they are probably going to do nothing other than wait for someone else to do something for them. Which won't happen. Just takes one person to start something and that person won't be you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregrobertson Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 The problem as I see it is that what started out as an organisation catering for low powered single seat aircraft has quite quickily changed. The organisation now caters for a wide range of aircraft from 95-10 right through to very sophisticated LSA aircraft. There is also a constant push from some areas to extend the weight, add further privilages (eg access to CTA) etc. All of this comes at a price i.e. more and more regulation from CASA. More regulation means greater cost for members in administration. None of us should be surprised by that. I can understand that thoes who want to continue to fly 95-10 aircraft and the like would be upset at the cost escalation, in that they are paying administration costs that they could argue they do not need. I don't have the answer, maybe a seperate organisation is worth consideration. We have all seen the result of less than profesional administration. Expect costs to increase in the future. Greg. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M61A1 Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 I've tried to make it quite clear that the the aircraft type is not my issue , why the obsession with rag & tube? Its just a term used for affordable ultralights nothing more nothing less and does not mean other designs are not included. Still the same story just winging on the forum what do you hope to achieve doing that? Well someone asked for opinions, I'm offering one. Also just having one of those days where I don't feel like holding it in. I was under the impression forums were for discussion. I am aware that whinging will no other effect than to make me feel better and possibly irritate some, but that could apply to 99% of discussion here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 The problem is the 95.10 ppl won't get off their bums and start their own organisation. its the only VIABLE solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winsor68 Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 The problem is the 95.10 ppl won't get off their bums and start their own organisation. its the only VIABLE solution. They DID! It used to be called AUF! Then it got hijacked by a lot of ex-GA pilots who had already stuffed up their own playing field by sitting on their bums. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 start another AUF is your only option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winsor68 Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 start another AUF is your only option. I disagree... Another option is to hand ALL the commercial ops over to CASA... Flying Schools, LSA etc etc Ra-Aus changes it's name back to Ra-Aus and gets back into the field it was designed to handle... simple aircraft, simple certification based upon prototype hours flown, minimum pilot licensing requirements, no controlled airspace, below 5000 feet (heck even say 2000 would work I reckon)... We can always learn to fly with the "Whatever the Commercial Operators Want to call their new Operation"... I would be happy to pay for that. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
503 Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 If it looks like ga flys like ga then it's ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 CASA wants LSA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 So a slight hint of what might be needed, but a lot of jumps to blame the organization/want a different one. I totally agree that $187.00 annual membership fee is outrageous for the present service, but when this came up for discussion I was shouted down by people claiming it was petty cash. That's one area within you power to change. RAA can pretty much do what it wants organization-wise, if it had a mind to, so setting up different classes with different standards is a routine matter, if members have a mind to do it - however it's not going to happen just by shouting abuse at those members who would have to vote on it. It requires an overall vision of what's wanted, and a written policy showing how this would be achieved, what the scope of activity would be, and how this would be managed. I wouldn't recommend grass roots flyers try to do that on a forum (because as we know with the best of intentions the subject gets off track and stops progressing forward), but rather use the forum to canvas support and a broad outline. You do have to separate regulations and procedures which should not have been applied to grass roots flying from regulations brought in during the last 25 years or so to reduce injury and loss of life - even if you make sandwiches for a kids football match you are bound by those regulations and procedures, so you are never going to get all the way back to the old days - they're gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 FAR103 type of ruling will fix most of the over regulation. Getting people to actually understand what a real ultralight is would be a big step foreward as well. Low and slow and lightweight. I think the reason the real grass roots pilots don't speak up to loud is they don't want to attract attention. If the masses finally woke up to how much fun we are having we would get more regulation for our trouble. all the old school i know want out of the RAAus not more involvement. Getting people to actually understand what a real ultralight is would be a key factor in getting any new interest in this form of flying along with a plan to avoid the new reports of these things falling out of the sky, eliminating the supporters at a high rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark11 Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 Pity Scott winton is not still with us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulh Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 ""even if you make sandwiches for a kids football match you are bound by those regulations and procedures, so you are never going to get all the way back to the old days - they're gone."" we have all experienced this in our work lives, the unfortunate reality of over regulation, bureaucratic green tape, red tape etc etc. it's not going to go away. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teckair Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 FT said.... Just takes one person to start something and that person won't be you. You are half right about that, won't be me, won't be you either, the way things are going it won't anybody. It is going to take more than one person to start something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ozzie Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 I've been pestering Middo for some time now. He is only interested in promoting and looking after his GA wannabe buddies. That is where the votes are. CASA don't want an alternate path. They removed that option some time back. Federal election coming up. Maybe time to remind tje pollies that monopolies are illeagle in Australia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 Teckair I don't own a 95:10... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teckair Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 I've been pestering Middo for some time now. He is only interested in promoting and looking after his GA wannabe buddies. That is where the votes are. CASA don't want an alternate path. They removed that option some time back. Federal election coming up. Maybe time to remind tje pollies that monopolies are illeagle in Australia. If my memory serves me correctly you have a email letter from Tony Hayes regarding this stuff. I knew Tony quite well and understood that like the rest of us he was not a perfect person but I thought that email would have been very close to being factual. To me it goes a long way to explaining how we got to where we are today. At the time that was posted ST came on and threatened legal action but I felt that was a hollow threat as I thought the email was very close to being correct. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teckair Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 Teckair I don't own a 95:10... The affordable category would need to cater for 2 seaters (25 and 55 rego) as well for training and there is always those who want to take passengers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWF Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 The affordable category would need to cater for 2 seaters (25 and 55 rego) as well for training and there is always those who want to take passengers. See .... it's getting bigger already. DWF . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 Bigger doesn't have to be more expensive or complex. It could be less expensive and less complex. Pietenpol for instance. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now