pilotdave69 Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Heard on NSW FIRE, and other sources, VH-DHL had a wheels up belly landing at Cobar this afternoon. Unsure is pilot alright, or if Pax onboard. Manufacturer: BEECH AIRCRAFT CORP Model: 35-33 Serial number: CD-116 Aircraft first registered in Australia: 24 June 1960 Year of manufacture: 1960 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Flown one of its sister ships DHT. B-33. Beech have the flap and wheel knobs close together and if you are quick to retract the flaps and get the wrong one, the only thing left is the step on one side to hold the plane off the ground. Rather nice aeroplane. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exadios Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 We had a wheel up landing a couple of weeks ago. The only injury was a bruised ego. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Perry Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 Flown one of its sister ships DHT. B-33. Beech have the flap and wheel knobs close together and if you are quick to retract the flaps and get the wrong one, the only thing left is the step on one side to hold the plane off the ground. Rather nice aeroplane. Nev We had a wheel up landing a couple of weeks ago. The only injury was a bruised ego. I've flown the old Vee tailed Bonanza, which is a similar machine, . . these had "Automatic" gear drop, for those drivers who forgot to include "Gear Down" in the standard downwind checklist,. . . this facility was, I believe, removed following a couple of court cases, where it either Didn't deploy,. . or deployed too late, or whatever,. . you know the USA and it's profundity of hungry lawyers. . . The panel / control ergonomics can often be another accident waiting to happen, as Nev mentions above, I was always taught to leave the flaps alone until we had turned off the runway, crossed the hold line and stopped. This allows more time to concentrate FULLY on which lever you are pulling or pushing, leaving slightly less chance of inadvertant gear retraction. I'm sure that those of you who have flown many hours in aircraft with retractable undercarriage will all have tales to recount on this subject. and I REALLY DO feel for anyone who got it wrong, referring to the post from Exadios above. . . ( Just as a matter of interest Ex,. . .does your "Handle" infer that whatever bunch of folks owned the aeroplane you scraped, are no longer your Adios ? ! ) sorry, . . not really funny. Whilst flying a lot out of Casey Airfield at Berwick, ( Vic) I heard about a salesman who accidentally retracted the dunlops on the landing ground run at Essendon whilst demonstrating some sort of aircraft for a potential customer. . . OOPS. . . and I personally have very nearly landed a Lake Buccaneer on a hard runway with the gear up and the floats down. . . due to continual distraction from much animated passengers. . ( Yes, I know, I know, . . . totally unprofessional and a poor excuse . . .) let he who is without sin cast the first stone, etc. . . etc. . . so my old mate Jaysus said anyhow. . . Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exadios Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 I've flown the old Vee tailed Bonanza, which is a similar machine, . . these had "Automatic" gear drop, for those drivers who forgot to include "Gear Down" in the standard downwind checklist,. . . this facility was, I believe, removed following a couple of court cases, where it either Didn't deploy,. . or deployed too late, or whatever,. . you know the USA and it's profundity of hungry lawyers. . .The panel / control ergonomics can often be another accident waiting to happen, as Nev mentions above, I was always taught to leave the flaps alone until we had turned off the runway, crossed the hold line and stopped. This allows more time to concentrate FULLY on which lever you are pulling or pushing, leaving slightly less chance of inadvertant gear retraction. I'm sure that those of you who have flown many hours in aircraft with retractable undercarriage will all have tales to recount on this subject. and I REALLY DO feel for anyone who got it wrong, referring to the post from Exadios above. . . ( Just as a matter of interest Ex,. . .does your "Handle" infer that whatever bunch of folks owned the aeroplane you scraped, are no longer your Adios ? ! ) sorry, . . not really funny. Whilst flying a lot out of Casey Airfield at Berwick, ( Vic) I heard about a salesman who accidentally retracted the dunlops on the landing ground run at Essendon whilst demonstrating some sort of aircraft for a potential customer. . . OOPS. . . and I personally have very nearly landed a Lake Buccaneer on a hard runway with the gear up and the floats down. . . due to continual distraction from much animated passengers. . ( Yes, I know, I know, . . . totally unprofessional and a poor excuse . . .) let he who is without sin cast the first stone, etc. . . etc. . . so my old mate Jaysus said anyhow. . . Phil I have not done a wheels up landing - yet. The pilot in question was a novice club member in a club aircraft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 I do sympathise with people who do this but I have never accepted there are "only those who have and those that will" Land with the gear up. ( or worse gear down in a float plane). It's pretty important to get it right. So far I haven't done it ( could be next time, I do) but hell, I work on it Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biggles5128 Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 Downwind, finals (PUF) and something I introduced into my checks years ago...just as you cross the fence confirm 3 green again, that gives you 3 opportunities to confirm the dunlops are dangled. I still do this in the J230, old habits are probably good ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Head in the clouds Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 The possibility of doing a wheels-up certainly activates the spinal shivers for me and I'm sure the only reason I haven't done it so far is because of the way an instructor dealt with me when he took me for my CS and retractable endorsements. He had a very gentle manner about him, ex-airforce fella. During the previous half a dozen circuits I'd done everything just fine and was happily about to complete the last landing for a full stop, received my landing clearance on short final and had started to round out when I just heard an almost inaudible "pilots who don't do their checks will land with their wheels up one day". I wasn't even sure anyone was talking to me but something started to register ever so slowly as I continued my round-out. I reached the stage where I expected the plane to settle when I realised the power had trickled on just enough to keep us airborne so I started to pull back on the throttle but it seemed to be jammed. Then it dawned on me and I glanced across to see Peter staring straight ahead, his expression giving nothing away, and very firmly holding the throttle on just enough to keep us in the air but he never said another word. I fire-walled the throttle, climbed away, cleaned up and announced the go-around. It certainly made me fanatical about my downwind and finals checks and to keep my awareness of "wheels" I always do a visual check for wheels even with a fixed gear. I figure that can't hurt anyway, I had a friend who twice lost a wheel. The first time he knew about it, from a shocking bounce when instructing, the second time he didn't notice it until his visual check on downwind, an axle that had had a crack for a while finally let go. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 The airforce don't trust the pilot. The usual call is "clear to land, check wheels". Most of the culprits way back were CASA nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultralights Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 isnt CASA the only aircraft operator in Australia to have crashed ALL their aircraft at some stage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ozzie Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 Once you fly a retract it is good practise to add gear down/up check and go through the motions to all other aircraft you fly, even if the gear is fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank marriott Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 "I have never accepted there are "only those who have and those that will" Land with the gear up. Nev." Apart from whatever your normal downwind checks are, I also use on short final RED, BLUE,GREEN in everything I get into. All parts should already be in place, but a couple of seconds confirmation is a comfort blanket - a go-round would be a better option then the other. I hope to prove you right Nev, but not bold enough to say it won't happen to me, but it has worked for the last 30 odd years. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motzartmerv Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Whats red blue green frank? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REastwood Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 I'm suspect Mixture (red), Pitch (Blue), Undercarriage (Green Lights). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank marriott Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Yep as above. Works with most aircraft, the Bonansas(spelling?) I have flown have all white levers but I keep to the R B G short final double check anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Perry Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Yep as above. Works with most aircraft, the Bonansas(spelling?) I have flown have all white levers but I keep to the R B G short final double check anyway. And so say all of us Frank ! ( Not forgetting to shout "WHEELS DOWN - - - -THREE GREENS" to yourself as well - - -OR "Gear down and welded" ! ) And the BONANZA is spelt just like the old American cowboy show. . . . ! ! ! They adopted the coloured levers because us English pilots are a bit thick I guess. . . . . . ( ! ) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank marriott Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 ZA that looks better, SA didn't look right 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poteroo Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 When you select GEAR on these Beech aircraft there is an interconnect to the nosewheel which shows as a moving section in a floor/firewall recess just left of the centre. When the nosewheel is fully UP or DOWN - it's visually evident to the pilot. Something that I used to watch for because with low wing there's usually no strut mounted mirror to check the nosewheel, and you can't see the mains either. I think Beech installed this because there's probably a higher incidence of nosewheel hangups. Because you can take gear down at quite a high speed in Beechcraft, it's been my practice to take it first - before first flaps. That way you can better feel the deceleration. If you delay until taking some flap, and drop them at around 100 - not much deceleration at all - but you can better hear the extension process. happy days, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dutchroll Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 Landing with the gear up is not inevitable. On solo retractable aircraft I have always done "finals checks". In fact, in multi-crew aircraft I still do "finals checks" silently to myself, and that's despite a multitude of warning systems to tell you if the gear isn't down! It has been so automatic over the years that I even find myself doing it on fixed gear aircraft. So if I ever land gear up unintentionally, I will give myself a right royal flogging, I can assure you. - is the gear down? - is the runway clear? - do I have a landing clearance (as applicable)? If the answer to all three is "yes", then I should be able to avoid damage, death, and embarrassment (in that order). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Perry Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 I should be able to avoid damage, death, and embarrassment (in that order). Hi Dutchroll, . . . . I often find that, Following the DEATH bit,. . . . the embarrassment doesn't bother me much ( ! ) I totally agree with the procedure though. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dutchroll Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 Yeah, I meant each of the three consequences in relation to the order I do my finals checks, not in relation to their seriousness. But it didn't quite come out right - I guess post mortem embarrassment might be valid if you believe in the afterlife! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Perry Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 Yeah, I meant each of the three consequences in relation to the order I do my finals checks, not in relation to their seriousness. But it didn't quite come out right - I guess post mortem embarrassment might be valid if you believe in the afterlife! Yeah,. . . . Sorry about that Dutch, . . . . . I regretted it the moment I pressed the enter key ! have you seen some of the howlers I've made over the few months I've been using this site ?? talk about pot remarking about kettle ! ! ! ANYWAY. . . good points and good procedures in my view. . . . . Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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