rhtrudder Posted July 5, 2014 Author Share Posted July 5, 2014 I am pretty sure we are allowed to cross direct to Tassie now via King Island which was brought in the same time we could climb to 10,000ft so I think the water crossing is OK but I could be wrong, although Ricks track does look safer Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andys@coffs Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 Rick That is a specific route that is Ok and it has specific over water reporting schedule requirements associated with it. For general over water clarity look at the exemptions that we operate under for very specific rules about over water flight. Google, as an example, CAO 95.55 and look at section 5 it is very clear to me that the longest direct distance over water from land to land is 40km assuming that at the 20km midpoint you are able to glide to one side or the other for the altitude you are at. 20km is roughly 66,000ft so assuming a 10:1 glide ratio (jabs for example) you need to be above 7000ft in altitude for that 40km crossing. I used to live in Adelaide and I've seen the white pointer sharks that live in that water you are proposing to cross, feasting on a whale carcass in backstairs passage between Kangaroo Island and the mainland....I personally wouldn't want to put down in that water in an aircraft for anything!! Ever!!! Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhtrudder Posted July 5, 2014 Author Share Posted July 5, 2014 Hi Andy I thought the king island track would apply elsewhere, I have flown it once , but you are right if I had a choice I would rather crash in the desert than become shark bait Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poteroo Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 I am pretty sure we are allowed to cross direct to Tassie now via King Island which was brought in the same time we could climb to 10,000ft so I think the water crossing is OK but I could be wrong, although Ricks track does look saferGreg Great info Rick. Just what I've been looking for too.rgmwa You need to get organised with at least 1 x 20L jerrycan - I'd recommend you uplift 2 x 20L when going westward because the wind is always stronger than forecast. You need to buy yourself a Mr Funnel for use on a low wing - easy -make sure you carry some cloth to prop it in place while you pour. Be prepared to fly lower when going west - and be sure you can setup power to give your economy cruise fuel burn. If you're going to Goolwa - pluck up the courage to don your life jacket - and set off via Kingscote - Althorpe - Wedge - Thistle and then PLC. Sure, you're over water quite a bit but the distance saving is considerable. via Port Pirie is ok if you can spare the extra couple hours - good o/n location with plenty accom and often hangarage on offer. You still have to cross 30nm of water anyway. You can get a cab into PLC to pickup PULP if you don't want to use avgas. Streaky Bay is a good spot to overnight - Motel/Hotel will pick you up at airstrip and you can refill jerrycans and refuel there. Avoid Ceduna if you can. Next stop should be Nullarbor Roadhouse, but if you needed to use the jerry's enroute - Penong is a good midway point. Fill up from the bowsers at Nullarbor - and o/n accom is ok there too. Beware the bulldust holes on the old 04/22 strip - now a taxiway....but we use it if the wind is unfavourable. Border Village has avgas or ULP and bowsers are close. Beware the roos on both strips. Mundrabilla and Madura are not easy to access the roadhouses. Mundrabilla is the best roadhouse on the Nullarbor - as evidenced by the truckie numbers there. Cocklebiddy is ok, and you can get right up to the bowsers. Caiguna is a mongrel strip - concave in the middle and can get very muddy - check with roadhouse first. Beware the roos on Caiguna, and the rough taxiway!. You can uplift fuel out of there and refuel at Norseman. From there it's a 2 hr jump to the wheatbelt of WA, and there are plenty of strips to land, top up ex your jerrys' and continue on to the west coast. Most of the WA wheatbelt strips are miles out of town and there are no taxis - so don't count on reliable refuelling in most of them. Hope this helps, happy days, 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhtrudder Posted July 5, 2014 Author Share Posted July 5, 2014 Great advice I was thinking of crossing Spencer gulf after Goolwa and then following the coast around to the Nullarbor Roadhouse just for the scenery but things may change I am still a couple of weeks away before I set off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poteroo Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 Great advice I was thinking of crossing Spencer gulf after Goolwa and then following the coast around to the Nullarbor Roadhouse just for the scenery but things may change I am still a couple of weeks away before I set off There are strips on both Wedge and Thistle Is if you have to dodge weather over Spencer Gulf. You have 8500 of Class G airspace above you to use on the route via Kingscote -Althorpe Is - Wedge is - Thistle Is - PLC. So if the winds are favourable you can get some altitude over the water without needing any clearances. (check the Adelaide VNC for limits). The west coast of Eyre Peninsula is quite scenic from PLC up past Elliston and Streaky Bay. Fowlers Bay area is also scenic, but from there to Nullabor RH is flat and straight going - pretty much along the beach. If you are a bit nervous - follow the Eyre Hwy up past Penong - Nundroo - Yalata on to Nullabor. Good strips at Penong and Yalata - but Nundroo seems to have disappeared. You should see a mob of whales en route via the 'head-of-bight'. We're already spotting them between Albany & Esperance. happy days, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhtrudder Posted July 6, 2014 Author Share Posted July 6, 2014 Thanks I will print these posts off for reference, have you done these trips in the past? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poteroo Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 Only since 1972. Ferry flights probably 2-3 times annually. happy days, 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coljones Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 What is the likelyhood of R254 and/or R279 being active. They don't show up in NAIPS for the 4.4 days so they are inactive now but what might the future hold? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j230 Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 Thinking of flying to somewhere near Perth , so I need a uncontrolled strip where I can hire a car, leaving from Echuca , has anyone done this trip and can tell me the best track for fuel stops , have about 3 hr endurance at approx. 120knts , any help would be greatly appreciated.Thanks Rhtrudder Hi I've done the trip four times fuel stops have always been Ceduna Forrest Esperance as I go to Busselton but you could follow railway line Forrest to Kalgoorlie . Forrest has a big hanger you can put your plane in over night also you have to watch out for the great Australian bight sea fog so Forrest is a good stop if you have to. The weather has never been friendly on this run for me as you go through different weather patterns . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushcaddy105 Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 You'll need a BP card for Avgas at Ceduna. They don't do Visa or M/C. (As at 2nd July when I last fueled there) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andys@coffs Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Gents I potentially have to do this trip shortly in a J120....The effective range taking potential wind into effect means I need to pick up Avgas between Balladonia and Murray field between 200nm and 250nm west. Is there a source of Avgas in that range? I'll have 2 x Jerrys on board but would prefer to land with them full as I consider them an absolute fixed reserve..... People have said stay away from Ceduna, I have a full suite of carnet cards, is there any other reason to avoid? Can I also get confirmation that Balladonia has avgas on pump.. A J120 doesn't take much avgas at a time....are any of the roadhouses anything other than pump where you can buy only what you need? For those that have done this trip heaps (east to west) what headwinds in reality should I plan for as a reasonable assumption? I've heard that I need to plan for 35kt headwinds but that seems excessive to me in that I probably would wait it out rather than push on....but if 35kts is reality for great chunks of time it might be a slow trip!! Any guidance would be appreciated......much less of an issue in a J230..... Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happyflyer Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 GentsI potentially have to do this trip shortly in a J120....The effective range taking potential wind into effect means I need to pick up Avgas between Balladonia and Murray field between 200nm and 250nm west. Is there a source of Avgas in that range? I'll have 2 x Jerrys on board but would prefer to land with them full as I consider them an absolute fixed reserve..... People have said stay away from Ceduna, I have a full suite of carnet cards, is there any other reason to avoid? Can I also get confirmation that Balladonia has avgas on pump.. A J120 doesn't take much avgas at a time....are any of the roadhouses anything other than pump where you can buy only what you need? For those that have done this trip heaps (east to west) what headwinds in reality should I plan for as a reasonable assumption? I've heard that I need to plan for 35kt headwinds but that seems excessive to me in that I probably would wait it out rather than push on....but if 35kts is reality for great chunks of time it might be a slow trip!! Any guidance would be appreciated......much less of an issue in a J230..... Andy No reason to stay away from Ceduna airport. Secure, good facilities and not too far from town. Avgas usually a good price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downunder Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Well.....how did the trip go rhtrudder? Any problems? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabiru Phil Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 No reason to stay away from Ceduna airport. Secure, good facilities and not too far from town. Avgas usually a good price. Same experience when coming back from Coral Bay Waiting for the weather to improve to Port Lincoln Coffee machine. Etc. Would call again. My trip didn't go your planned way. Kal. To Forest then Ceduna, Lincoln. PHIL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick morawski Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 GentsI potentially have to do this trip shortly in a J120....The effective range taking potential wind into effect means I need to pick up Avgas between Balladonia and Murray field between 200nm and 250nm west. Is there a source of Avgas in that range? I'll have 2 x Jerrys on board but would prefer to land with them full as I consider them an absolute fixed reserve..... People have said stay away from Ceduna, I have a full suite of carnet cards, is there any other reason to avoid? Can I also get confirmation that Balladonia has avgas on pump.. A J120 doesn't take much avgas at a time....are any of the roadhouses anything other than pump where you can buy only what you need? For those that have done this trip heaps (east to west) what headwinds in reality should I plan for as a reasonable assumption? I've heard that I need to plan for 35kt headwinds but that seems excessive to me in that I probably would wait it out rather than push on....but if 35kts is reality for great chunks of time it might be a slow trip!! Any guidance would be appreciated......much less of an issue in a J230..... Andy Hi Andy I don't think Balladonia has avgas, you may want to call them and confirm. The last place for avgas is Caiguna. I think from there you could get to Kalgoorlie (about 225 mm) then down the highway to Merredin (prior permission required, China Southern training airfield) From there you could get to YMUL. In between Ycag and YMUL direct track is big hole with no avgas and little or no mogas, and lots of tiger country. Only other option if you're sticking to avgas is via esperance-Albany-YMUL. To avoid headwinds time your trip to coincide with a High coming into the Bight and catch the easterly winds westward. Have a safe trip Rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andys@coffs Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Thanks Rick, appreciate the guidance Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWF Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Here is what I would suggest in a J120. AVGAS is available at all these landing places. NO AVGAS at YBAL or YNSM. Via Kalgoorlie vice Esperance would also be an option. Hope this helps. DWF YEUC - YSEN.pdf YEUC - YSEN.pdf YEUC - YSEN.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poteroo Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 GentsI potentially have to do this trip shortly in a J120....The effective range taking potential wind into effect means I need to pick up Avgas between Balladonia and Murray field between 200nm and 250nm west. Is there a source of Avgas in that range? I'll have 2 x Jerrys on board but would prefer to land with them full as I consider them an absolute fixed reserve..... People have said stay away from Ceduna, I have a full suite of carnet cards, is there any other reason to avoid? Can I also get confirmation that Balladonia has avgas on pump.. A J120 doesn't take much avgas at a time....are any of the roadhouses anything other than pump where you can buy only what you need? For those that have done this trip heaps (east to west) what headwinds in reality should I plan for as a reasonable assumption? I've heard that I need to plan for 35kt headwinds but that seems excessive to me in that I probably would wait it out rather than push on....but if 35kts is reality for great chunks of time it might be a slow trip!! Any guidance would be appreciated......much less of an issue in a J230..... Andy OK Andy, this may help. I've been over and back last year in my RV, and back this week in the Brumby. Ceduna seems ok to me for AVGAS. Sometimes the BP cardswipe is a bit cranky, but keep trying different speeds and impacts with your card. Place is currently getting very busy with choppers and other support aircraft for the oil/gas exploration happening offshore there. Getting PULP involves a taxi ride 2kms into town. Nullabor has an archaic avgas facility but management is good, prompt etc. Or, you can taxy round the front and fillup direct from the 98 PULP bowser - a great help. Price was $1.849/L, one hell of a saving on >$3/L for avgas. Border Village has very narrow strips, lots of sharp limestone on edges and plenty skippys - beware. Has avgas, but difficult to get around to the PULP bowser. I think that you can access the Cocklebiddy pumps. Caiguna has avgas at rear of servo, but you can (carefully) taxy round thru some roads past the avgas and reach the most easterly pump - which happens to be 98 PULP @ $1.98/L I don't know about Balladonia Roadhouse - understand that you can easily get PULP, but need to check avgas prior. Don't make the mistake of landing at Balladonia Station tho - it's down at the W to NW turn point of the Hwy. From there, it's a bloody long flight over trees to reach Esperance, or straightline to Norseman is the same. Follow the road around past Fraser Range Stn (now has a large mining strip serviced by turboprops). Norseman is an unknown. Unless you can get a taxi, and fill your own drums with PULP? There is nothing available in the wheatbelt in a straightline from Norseman to Murrayfield until you reach Narrogin. The Gliding Club has avgas there - prior arrangement. Alternatively, you could go from Norseman to Southern Cross where you can get avgas...which is closer than Narrogin, and beats going due west over a lot of bush! Details in ERSA. Now, the weather. I am prepared to sit in Port Lincoln for a day or two just to get a big High in the Bight which will give you plus lower winds. i once waited 2 days, then flew an old C172 from PLC to Albany in under 9 hrs. Headwinds are usual over 5000 ft. I tend to fly the Bight section from Ceduna to Caiguna at 1500 max to pickup whatever SE breeze is going. Quite often there is a hot NE/N/NW wind blowing at 20-25 over 3000 ft, while down on the deck it's actually cooler in a S/SE breeze. More often than not the crosswind effect cancels out any GS gain - but at least it's not severely negative. I left Lincoln before lunch Monday 23rd March and flew @ 1500 all the way to Nullarbor and averaged 90-93 GS from a TAS of around 98. Then Tuesday I left Nullabor early am, but the BoM failed to deliver the promised +10 easterly and I suffered from a 4-5 kt headwind again down low. But, it was worse at 4500 where I had a quick look - 10-13 kts headwind there. Out of Caiguna I flew due W along the Eyre Hwy to Balladonia Stn, then SW direct to Hopetoun and on to Albany. By then, winds had swung further SW and I was back to 83-85 GS at 1500. Tried 4500 and it was even worse,(not unexpected), and then 500agl for a while. That gave me an extra 5 kts, but a rougher ride and higher risk over tiger country. So, in summary - be prepared to keep down low, avoid bending the throttle and extend your range. happy days, 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poteroo Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 I forgot to add that April + May are probably the 2 best months to fly the south coast of Australia. There are less troughlines + TS moving SE out of the tropics, and the early cold fronts are small and of short duration. You also expect less hot N winds which make the Nullarbor such an ugly locale when they blow.....gritty dust everywhere and usuall some unmanageable crosswinds on narrow strips. There are probably more HIGHs in the Bight at this time of year, (but they seem to last only 1-2 days), and these are great for E to W flights because the lower level winds are more E-SE. happy days, 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andys@coffs Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Poteroo Thanks very much for that guidance, Exactly what I was after...I now don't need to do that flight however I'm certain it will help others who, as I did, go searching past posts looking for a bit of help planning. Thanks again Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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