Yenn Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Well we still don't know what exactly this job is all about, but my guess is that it is empire building. Let us hope that I am mistaken, so just put it down to my cynicism. Those who want to have more and ongoing courses are OK so long as I don't have to put up with the bullpoop. I did the human factors course with an ex. board member and it was useful, but he didn't teach the course as most others would have, but just discussed scenarios and past experiences. I would definitely not want to have to keep repeating the course, in the same way that I do not want to do refresher driving courses. I never had formal driving tuition, except for driving tanks in the army. I have never done an advanced driver course. I have often watched other drivers and wondered how they ever got a licence. That includes watching a driving instructor nearly run down a woman on a pedestrian crossing as he reversed over it and a police ute which couldn't decide which lane to drive in. Don't mention the people using their phone as they drive, and who coould say that they didn't know it was illegal? Ongoing training! A waste of time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robinsm Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 They increase fees, cut the magazine, complain about no money and now want to employ someone to oversee what has been running fine for years. Please tell me there is a really, really, good reason for this. If someone is empire building, get rid of them quick smart. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Airline pilots seem to like it when they go on a new type. Takes a couple of months of intense work, and can be pretty stressful for some (most) .Keeping up with the latest ideas has to be a good thing especially if it's something of a medical nature. I actually would like to be a continuous student, almost, but it would not have to be BS just for the sake of ticking something off. Currently we live in an age where information is around at an ever increasing rate, but on TV except for a minority of shows It's an insult to your intelligence to watch it. Nev 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ungrounded Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Currently we live in an age where information is around at an ever increasing rate, but on TV except for a minority of shows It's an insult to your intelligence to watch it. Nev Chuckle. With regard to TV content programming. One of the inventing Fathers of television, if not THE gentleman whom should be accredited with its invention, Philo Farnsworth had this to say about his invention:- His son Kent was once asked about his father's attitude. Kent reported' date=' "I suppose you could say that he felt he had created kind of a monster, a way for people to waste a lot of their lives. Throughout my childhood his reaction to television was, 'There's nothing on it worthwhile, and we're not going to watch it in this household, and I don't want it in your intellectual diet.' "[/quote']Yep that's right. The inventor of television wouldn't let his own son watch it. Guess things haven't improved much since !! Source: http://www.byhigh.org/History/Farnsworth/PhiloT1924.html 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ev17ifly2 Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 They increase fees, cut the magazine, complain about no money and now want to employ someone to oversee what has been running fine for years. Please tell me there is a really, really, good reason for this. If someone is empire building, get rid of them quick smart. They are probably doing it in order to keep us members in the air and flying safely under the auspices of RAA. I will say it again. The world has moved on since Ungrounded's mate invented television and the hay days of rag and tube flying. This is our organisation and they keep us flying so get behind them. If you believe things are going off track and you have the expertise and will to fix it then put up your hand and nominate for a position 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robinsm Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 At the risk of being flamed, we are not a rich organisation, the training system has worked well to date being overseen by the members of the Raa permanent staff. Why do we need to employ another person to fix something that aint broke. The fact I fly rag and tube has nothing to do with my asking this question, I ask it as a concerned member who pays fees and expects the management to spend them wisely. I will get behind the organisation at any time but that support, both in time and financial must be used responsibly and with justification, not throwing money at supposed good ideas that dont need to be fixed. Are they saying that the accreditation process in Raa Aus is flawed and the people overseeing it dont know what they are doing? I do not feel I need to be a board member to voice my concerns, but if you are worried that much nominate me........... 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff13 Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 ^^^^ 30 fatalities in 30 months does not instil confidence that the current system is working well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DGL Fox Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 We can not live in the past guys...what was ok 10 years ago is not on now...safety now IS the number one factor in most industries, construction, mining and many others, safety now is number 1 before anything, if an accident happens at work now you can no longer use the old... oh we didn't have the money for that piece of safety equipment, Workplace Heath and Safety won't wear it, it's same for us, RAAus can't be seen to just let things float along we must been seen by our masters that we are always moving forward trying to improve our safety standards, I know that this costs money, I know there are members that say, I don't need any more training, I have been flying for 30 yrs but that doesn't work anymore. I do safety inductions at work and I have these comments every day, why do we need to do these 30 min inductions they are all a waste of time and all crap...I say to them...sorry but that IS what is required for you to work at this site, if you don't want to do it, then there is the gate...same as flying, if the powers to be need more safety programs etc well we need to get used to it and bloody well do them, the days of no ongoing training is set to go like the dodo birds. I have seen how awareness programs have worked on construction sites to lower accidents, sometimes you just have to hammer it into some peoples heads before they understand that it is in their and their families best interests that they go home at the end of the day in one piece... I think our organization's leaders are just seeing the future of our sport and are trying to show CASA that we are a professional group and that they take the safety of our members and our friends and family that fly with us seriously, 30 of our friends have been killed in relatively short time... I think we need be seen to be taking action before CASA does...I applaud our leadership and if it costs some more to do that, providing the costs can be justified I am all for it....IMO David 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farri Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Franco , these days most shows are full of "faults" silly rules and such. Nev, I`m a realist, well I think I am!...I`ve always been able to see where AUF/RA-Aus was/is heading!...I don`t have a problem with it, other than,we all get dragged along by " faults and silly rules." I did my share for the AUF/RA-Aus, when I became president of the FNQUA, made our property available,(free of charge), jumped all the hoops and started instructing, legally, so that we could have some Ultralight pilots in our club instead of just a bunch of guys talking about it, and I did so, for twelve years, creating membership for the organisation... Please don`t think I`m just blowing my own trumpet,so to speak,I`m just telling it how it is. I think the biggest problem or challenge, if you wish, for everyone these days, is trying to stay ahead of the " faults and silly rules," so that you don`t loose everything in the event of a court action and you loose. The way I see it, and I know I could be wrong! Everyone is running for cover and trying to protect their own backside! This creates a situation, whereby, every " fault and silly rule" has to be followed to the letter, so, this creates more " faulty and silly rules!"...The problem gets even bigger because, who`s to say, what is a "faulty or silly rule?' That`s just the way it is and I can accept that!...I have the choice whether to be part of it or not. Frank. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 I think it is just like driving, there are a lot of people out there that have been driving for years but are need of a refresher course in safety, new rules eg: mobile phones and the like to try and knock out some bad habits that they may have developed over the years, I think that the same would apply to flying...maybe even more important from the safety point of view. David Isn't that what the BFR is for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Years ago , the BFR or equivalent was a mere formality. Often you only had a single seat aircraft. I'm not arguing against it, but it doesn't seem to have had a dramatic effect. The human factors generally was not done well either . Had it been we might have had a few more souls around. I believe the most good is done by inspecting your aircraft effectively, Being a confident and competent and AWARE pilot and keeping away from dangerous situations. Eg weather, showing off, running out of daylight or fuel.. check aircraft balance.. If you aren't sure of something, don't chance it check it again. That's aviation.... Just commonsense? Sure it is. Nev 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DGL Fox Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Isn't that what the BFR is for? Kev, Yes that judges your flying but what about where your head is safety wise, maybe you have time off flying, could be health reasons, could be a divorce could be a lot of reasons, yes you may fly ok but don't you think that as the same time as doing your BFR you should be a some re training in human factors, it's a funny name , I just look at it as someone asking you questions about yourself and how you fly and the decisions that you make before you fly and during your flight, I think these decisions are just as important to your safety then the flying of the aircraft...don't you? David 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Some can do the deal at the check but revert to true form when it's over. It's about an attitude to being cautious and checking things, that becomes part of your approach to the job. Gives you a big chance of being around longer. It's not sissy to be a careful pilot. Nev 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slb Posted July 3, 2015 Author Share Posted July 3, 2015 From July Sport Pilot: TRAINING PLANS BY M ICHAEL L INKE CEO RA-Aus is to appoint a training co-ordinator. As part of a new commitment to training, a recruitment process is underway to find someone to oversee a strategic approach to training delivery. For many years RA-Aus has dabbled at the edges with training. We delivered a safety first program some years ago, began offering human factors training and provided an online testing tool for L1 assessment. Over the coming 12 months, our focus will be on our maintainers at the L1 and L2 level and human factors will again come into the spotlight. We will also work with flight training schools to tap into training needs and deliver training to our members in areas of the greatest need. Keep an eye on Sport Pilot and our e-news for more. So it will be primarily maintenance related, for both L1 and L2's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slb Posted July 3, 2015 Author Share Posted July 3, 2015 oops. The above was on Page 13 but on page 45 ... (from the Ops team talking about accidents) CAN WE PREVENT THEM? How can RA-Aus, as an organisation, prevent these accidents from recurring? We could lay down more rules and require a load more training in human factors and decision making. But these measures would be met with resentment and would probably not achieve their purpose. Mandating more training for 9,500 flying members, in an effort to change the behaviour of a few, is not effective. Ultimately RA-Aus can only do so much. The responsibility, as it has always been, rests with the pilot. If you choose to operate in high risk areas, with or without appropriate training, the outcome is boringly sadly predictable. The same article states that out of 40 fatal accidents .... " ... and five mechanical failures including overstressing the airframe or poor maintenance." which means that most were not maintenance related. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yenn Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 There is so much rubbish in the constant training environment nowadays. I got sick of it in the construction industry and retired early to get away from it. It resulted in the work place being percieved to be so safe that young blokes were unaware of existing dangers. I then got fed up with the constant training and retraining in the SES, which was just a question of ticking boxes. We had to comply with ridiculous regulations when training, but when a disaster is declared, we could do anything we considered safe. That meant I could be working in a dangerous situation with someone who did not know what the dangers were. In flying we all know someone who will probably kill themselves, but who is willing to stand up and talk to those people. Being of advanced years I am not so timid as some other people and have made my thoughts known. makes me unpopular at times, but I have at least one friend who is still flying, who at one time looked as if he was for the chop. We need to take responsibility for our own and other peoples safety and not just expect the powers that be will know how to train us and keep us safe. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slb Posted July 3, 2015 Author Share Posted July 3, 2015 I agree with you Yenn. Those that are doing everything right and abide by the rules, have a good attitude and keep up themselves informed of new things shouldn't need to be re-trained. After all they are flying and maintaining their aircraft correctly. I am just not sure what the RA-Aus can do about those that are either ignorant of the facts or have a bad attitude i.e. refuse to keep themselves up to date - how do they determine who they are? Also how would they know what the problem is and how would they correct the situation? A possible solution may be to start afresh from the bottom i.e. new people coming in. Get the good attitude right from the start (initial training) and hope that eventually it will spread out from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DGL Fox Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 I think that this is an attitude of many people who are in the construction industry and others that they feel that the training is not relevant and just a box ticking exercise which just puts people off, I have seen this when I do my safety inductions etc, the blank look on peoples faces with the old...lets get this over and done with type attitude. We don't need that, if you are going to develop a safety training program for recreational flying it HAS to be informative with up to date info and especially for us it's got to be fun as well, I think maybe some sort of hands on safety training that may include engine management EG: for a Rotax things to check before flying, sounds simple but to refresh things that may seem obvious that has become over time things we just tend to skim over even though they are important. I guess this is probably the role of this new safety coordinator, he will need to come up with very up to date and informative safety programs but also making it fun for everyone as well otherwise you are going to get those blank looks at the presentations which won't do anyone any good at all.. time will tell I guess.. David 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slb Posted July 4, 2015 Author Share Posted July 4, 2015 it HAS to be informative with up to date info and especially for us it's got to be fun as well, I think maybe some sort of hands on safety training that may include engine management EG: for a Rotax things to check before flying, sounds simple but to refresh things that may seem obvious that has become over time things we just tend to skim over even though they are important. Yes, the HGFA has been doing this for 3 years now for their Weightshift and its proved to be popular. The course is not compulsory though, so those who want to have the information pay to attend. They have had a few going back for a refresher course, which they don't charge for, but I understand everyone enjoys the course and comes away much better informed and current. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slb Posted July 4, 2015 Author Share Posted July 4, 2015 Optimistic? Yes, I am. I hope RA-Aus will also make it non-compulsory for these upcoming courses. The article sounds as though it will be coming in for both L1 and L2s, so a lot of members will be involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ev17ifly2 Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 Only because you don,t know enough about the HGFA and their weight shift operations, training and instructors 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slb Posted July 4, 2015 Author Share Posted July 4, 2015 Only because you don,t know enough about the HGFA and their weight shift operations, training and instructors Are you saying the RA-Aus would not be able to match what the HGFA are doing? because I think they should be able to, certainly if they have a full-time person to plan it all out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yenn Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 DGL Fox. I worked for 11 years in what was considered a very dangerous construction job, started at the bottom and ebded up us a supervisor. We had 2 fatalities in that time, both were men I had worked with and refused to take into my gang. I considered they were too gung ho. Several more could have died, but I sacked them before they succeeded. It has now become harder to sack people, so they become a liability. What we used to do at work is now completely illegal and there is hardly anyone around who could use the old type of equipment, I will agree that it is possibly safer, but the constant awareness of danger is not there now, even if the danger exists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ev17ifly2 Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 Are you saying the RA-Aus would not be able to match what the HGFA are doing? because I think they should be able to, certainly if they have a full-time person to plan it all out. Exactly the opposite ! As I said, you have no idea of what is going on. You obviously don't fly trikes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ev17ifly2 Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 If there are any of you out there that is a RA pilot, holds a Cert 4, aircraft or aerospace engineering background, great inter personel skills and can put up a spiffy PowerPoint presentation then apply for the job. If not, forever hold you peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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